Van Winkle Family Reserve Red Wax Export

[passthebourbon]

Hi Everyone,

Hoping some of the collector's/guru's could help dig up some info on the attached bottle. Looked all over the internet and keep coming up short. Hoping to find information on number of cases shipped to Japan, if anyone has tasted this I'd love to know what you thought of it, and any other information you think would be helpful.

Hope the pic's came out alright...had to do some editing!

Cheers,

Pete

[AaronWF]

Not sure what kind of information you're looking for. How's this, fellow Chicagoan, invite me over for a taste?!

I know that Julian bottled a red wax bottle distilled in 1974 with a label similar to the VWFRR label, so it looks like the bourbon here came from the same batch. Obviously, I have no idea how many cases were shipped to Japan, but from what I've read, the stuff released in the US is an excellent example of aged Stitzel-Weller bourbon.

This is the kind of stuff you open up to taste and share with fellow enthusiasts. I know I would love the pleasure!

What are the circumstances leading to your acquisition?

[BFerguson]

Not sure about whats in the bottle, but don't let Maker's see it.

Maybe we'll get lucky and Julian will chime in about it.

Nice find.

B

[clingman71]

I'll be in Chicago in two weeks, I offer my services for a "hands-on" tasting and opinion.

[passthebourbon]

Not sure what kind of information you're looking for. How's this, fellow Chicagoan, invite me over for a taste?!

I know that Julian bottled a red wax bottle distilled in 1974 with a label similar to the VWFRR label, so it looks like the bourbon here came from the same batch. Obviously, I have no idea how many cases were shipped to Japan, but from what I've read, the stuff released in the US is an excellent example of aged Stitzel-Weller bourbon.

I have seen a 16 yo red wax, maybe this is the one you are referring to. Heard great things about that bottle, but those threads seem to indicate that was the only red wax done due to the MM patent.

This is the kind of stuff you open up to taste and share with fellow enthusiasts. I know I would love the pleasure!

What are the circumstances leading to your acquisition?

[cigarnv]

Hi Everyone,

Hoping some of the collector's/guru's could help dig up some info on the attached bottle. Looked all over the internet and keep coming up short. Hoping to find information on number of cases shipped to Japan, if anyone has tasted this I'd love to know what you thought of it, and any other information you think would be helpful.

Hope the pic's came out alright...had to do some editing!

Cheers,

Pete

[sailor22]

Seems like I heard somewhere recently that the VW red wax pre dated the MM use of red wax. Perhaps a bourbon historian can chime in on that one.

[Kalessin]

Seems like I heard somewhere recently that the VW red wax pre dated the MM use of red wax. Perhaps a bourbon historian can chime in on that one.

[timd]

Never seen that one before... and 101 proof? First I've seen that ABV on a VW product.

Interesting find... what can you tell us about where you scored it, etc.?

Very, very cool.

[dridge11]

Was any bourbon wax-sealed in the 20th century before MM started selling their product in 1958? I'm not positive, but that's my impression from everything i've seen over the years.

[StraightBoston]

That's a nice one! It might take some clever iterations of the search function here but I think you'll find some other examples.

I'm aware of (i.e. in possession of) the 15yo undated version with the label that looks like VWFRR (minus the second "R") and the dripping red wax and I know others have dated versions similar to this.

Regarding the dripping red wax, by definition all VW products came out long after MM started their thing, but a combination of export-only, company size, and family/brand history kept away an injunction as I understand it. (Cuervo had none of the above to fall back on.)

Tasting notes: best S-W I've ever had. Rich, cherry-burnt-butter nose and brandy-like finish.

[StraightBoston]

So I did a little searching of my own and came across this post by doubleblank whom I consider authoritative for VW products of the era.

Look's like you've got some Boone whiskey, kin to the first Pappy 20 release!

[passthebourbon]

So I did a little searching of my own and came across this post by doubleblank whom I consider authoritative for VW products of the era.

Look's like you've got some Boone whiskey, kin to the first Pappy 20 release!

Kevin - Thank you for digging up such great information. Your info and tasting notes are exactly the stuff I was looking for. Puts my internet search skills to shame (but that isn't a huge compliment :grin: )

Just to confirm, were those tasting notes on the unlabelled 15, or the 17 yo?

[gblick]

I can't offer any info/knowledge, but I did notice that TomH has a VW with red wax on his shelf... http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12897&page=38

[MacinJosh]

That is some sexy bourbon porn right there. Very nice find!

Randy or Tom might be able to provide you with a little more information about the specific label. I'll point this thread out to them just in case they missed it.

Mike Veach & Chuck Cowdery are well known bourbon historians. They might be able to provide some insight for practices in that era. I'll see Mike next month and can ask him then.

Again, great find!

[TomH]

Really don't have any info on that label. I do have a dripping wax bottle but it was distilled in 1970.

[jvanwinkle]

I bottled that whiskey for sale to a Japanese customer, from December, 1990 to March of 1992. Shipped a total of about 1,500 cases total. I used the red wax & got away with it because it was export & MM only had the trademark for the US. Bottled a 17 year also.

The whiskey was from the Old Boone Distillery, now long gone.

Julian

[passthebourbon]

I bottled that whiskey for sale to a Japanese customer, from December, 1990 to March of 1992. Shipped a total of about 1,500 cases total. I used the red wax & got away with it because it was export & MM only had the trademark for the US. Bottled a 17 year also.

The whiskey was from the Old Boone Distillery, now long gone.

Julian

Julian,

Thank you for providing these details, I, and I'm sure many others, really appreciate it.

Could you answer me two more questions?

1. Does a case = 12? I know Stagg comes in a 3 bottle case, as do some of the current Pappy offerings (I believe)...so I'm just curious

&

2. When you said "Bottled a 17 year also," what did you mean by that as this bottle is a 17 year.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond.

Cheers,

Pete

[smokinjoe]

I bottled that whiskey for sale to a Japanese customer, from December, 1990 to March of 1992. Shipped a total of about 1,500 cases total. I used the red wax & got away with it because it was export & MM only had the trademark for the US. Bottled a 17 year also.

The whiskey was from the Old Boone Distillery, now long gone.

Julian

So, Mr. Van Winkle (if that's even your real name), which Japanese customer? Why so secretive on the name? Why not just be up front and tell us? :skep::skep::skep: And, about 1,500 cases????? Don't you know exactly how many cases it was? Why so coy? What are you trying to hide???? :skep::skep::skep: And, the bottling? When in December??? When in March???? Don't you have a calendar?? I know you couldn't have bottled in all of December, because you were closed on Christmas!!!!!! Hah!!!I demand to know!!!!!! I have a right to know!!!!! And, what's the real story behind losing the mustache??? And I don't want no cockamamy Thanksgiving story, Mr. marketinggenius. I want the TRUTH!!!!! And, why didn't Mr. Cowdery ask you about that?????? How much are you paying him for his silence????? Probably part of the BILLIONS you have made from your fancy bottles.

[B1bomber]

That's interesting info on that red waxed bottle, Julian. I have a similar one, and I also have a different Van Winkle 17 year old, picture is attached. I've often wondered if there's any connection to the similarly labeled initial A. H. Hirsch 15 year olds. The two in this picture on the left bear similar labels, yet have different bottling dates, one being in September and the other February, both distilled in 1974. The Van Winkle 17 doesn't list dates, merely "Lot H." All have the same proof (95.6) and state Lawrenceburg, as you'll see on the labels.

Any info on any of these, the Van Winkle or the Hirsch's is appreciated!

[passthebourbon]

So, Mr. Van Winkle (if that's even your real name), which Japanese customer? Why so secretive on the name? Why not just be up front and tell us? :skep::skep::skep: And, about 1,500 cases????? Don't you know exactly how many cases it was? Why so coy? What are you trying to hide???? :skep::skep::skep: And, the bottling? When in December??? When in March???? Don't you have a calendar?? I know you couldn't have bottled in all of December, because you were closed on Christmas!!!!!! Hah!!!I demand to know!!!!!! I have a right to know!!!!! And, what's the real story behind losing the mustache??? And I don't want no cockamamy Thanksgiving story, Mr. marketinggenius. I want the TRUTH!!!!! And, why didn't Mr. Cowdery ask you about that?????? How much are you paying him for his silence????? Probably part of the BILLIONS you have made from your fancy bottles.

Read this earlier on the train and burst out laughing. Well written...

[Restaurant man]

So, Mr. Van Winkle (if that's even your real name), which Japanese customer? Why so secretive on the name? Why not just be up front and tell us? And, about 1,500 cases????? Don't you know exactly how many cases it was? Why so coy? What are you trying to hide???? And, the bottling? When in December??? When in March???? Don't you have a calendar?? I know you couldn't have bottled in all of December, because you wereclosed on Christmas!!!!!! Hah!!!I demand to know!!!!!! I have a right to know!!!!! And, what's the real story behind losing the mustache??? And I don't want no cockamamy Thanksgiving story, Mr. marketinggenius. I want the TRUTH!!!!! And, why didn't Mr. Cowdery ask you about that?????? How much are you paying him for his silence????? Probably part of the BILLIONS you have made from your fancy bottles.

It had to be said joe! Thank yu for your fearless reporting. Although this will be your last interview ever of a (living) bourbon icon. You will live out your days knowing that no one can call you a punk! :skep:

[jvanwinkle]

So I take the time to look up the info on that OLD bottling & this is what I get?

Why did I even bother trying?

Never again.

[mosugoji64]

So I take the time to look up the info on that OLD bottling & this is what I get?

Why did I even bother trying?

Never again.

That was pure sarcasm, Julian. Just a comment on some of the paranoia that has crept into postings lately, not a dig on you. Hope you'll continue to provide us with some valuable info.

[Restaurant man]

So I take the time to look up the info on that OLD bottling & this is what I get?

Why did I even bother trying?

Never again.

Im just hoping that jvanwinkle was trying to match sarcastic comments with smokinjoe. Otherwise I'll be forced to cut joe out of my bourbon Will