Coming down from "Whiskey Snobbery"

[OscarV]

Case in point: one of the best bourbons I've had this year cost $18.00, it's Triple A. I spent almost $80.00 for a 4RSB (the 2012 limited edition) that was certainly good but no better IMO than most 4RSBs I've had. Enough said.

Gary

[KYPayne]

Personally, I prefer whiskey higher on the proof scale. I enjoy the thick mouth feel and to an extent the fire that underpins all the flavors. I seldom add water to whiskey because from my experience it deadens some flavors and brings out others, creating a balance different from the original drink, and the original flavor profile is why I'm drinking a particular whiskey to begin with. That being said, anytime I go out for dinner with friends and someone suggests that we order drinks, someone will almost undeniably complain of their cocktail being "too strong." My experiences with high proof whiskey and just drinking whiskey in general has led to my wanting the untainted, raw taste of the spirit in question: tequila, gin, vodka (for what it's worth), or whiskey. My preferences for stiff drinks and neat whiskey lend themselves to an air of snobbery.

That's kind of off topic, but it goes hand in hand with seldom drinkers' perceptions of spirits.

[Kyjd75]

It's not snobbery just personal taste.

For example at $18.00 I will pass on the AAA, to me it's not worth it.

I bought 4 bottles of 4R1B 2012 LE at $75.00 each and I wish I had bought more because I feel it's a bargain.

Personal taste is what it's all about. I love AAA 10 yr., but I also think the 2012 4R1B LE might just be the best bourbon I've ever had.

[Gillman]

Fair enough, and I agree with Oscar too that it is all down to taste. I am simply saying, if someone says a whiskey has to be good just because it costs a lot (or vice versa) I don't agree with that and I think few here would. Many people do though choose spirits on that basis, I suppose it's a kind of shorthand, for people who don't want to take the time to study it. Snobbery is probably too strong a word in fact, but I'm thinking of people e.g. who feel Johnny Walker Blue is great simply because it is expensive and has a luxury packaging, well I don't agree with that. (It's a good whisky, but others in the line-up are better value IMO, notably the Gold). We all have interests in some areas more than others and I suppose if you really analyse it, price and package are one way to ensure to the casual buyer a certain minimum quality; and therefore snobbery, which has negative connotations to some, is again probably too strong a word. But as in any field where people acquire knowledge (cars, computers or anything else) if you take the time to learn about it, you can often do better than the standard in its class.

Just another point is that each bottle really can be different. I've had Triple A I wouldn't buy again, and some I've really liked. Perhaps that's even true of the 4RSB Limited Edition 2012, but the one I happened to have struck me as pretty typical of 4RSB. I loved the anniversary 17 year old bottling, that was amazing. But every bottle can differ and I almost always look at them now as individual buys if you see what I mean...

Gary

Edited August 2, 2012 by Gillman

[BourbonJoe]

I simply look at it from this perspective, having drunk a LOT of bourbons in my time. You can buy Good cheap bourbon but you can't buy Great cheap bourbon.

Joe :usflag:

[bad_scientist]

I'm a big fan of Ezra Brooks 90 proof. While I wanted to like other cheap bourbons - OF Signature, HH BiB, even Beam Black - I just couldn't get into them in the end. EB, on the other hand, I have trouble not picking whenever I want a glass of whiskey.

I've noticed that my current bottle is very, very different from my last one. The last one was dry and creamy, and this new one is sweet, a bit woody, and has a bit of rye spice. I love both profiles.

Anyway, my friends see me drinking this and OGD BiB and they think all I drink is crap. When they blanch, I tell them, oh, it's not so bad, and give them PVW15 or an old SW. They think they're rotgut, too! It goes to show the power of suggestion. I could pour VVOF into a cheap-looking bottle and all I'd get would be winces.

[CoMobourbon]

I simply look at it from this perspective, having drunk a LOT of bourbons in my time. You can buy Good cheap bourbon but you can't buy Great cheap bourbon.

Joe :usflag:

True. But, in my limited experience, great bourbon is almost never so much better than good bourbon that it is worth its exponentially higher price tag.

Think of it this way. Great bourbon is better than good bourbon, but good bourbon is EXPONENTIALLY better than no bourbon. So when great bourbon is EXPONENTIALLY more expensive than good bourbon but only somewhat better, I will reach for the good stuff every time in order to avoid the no-bourbon dilemma. Even if the the great bourbon is better, and often it is, I would still get ripped off shelling out 3x-10x more money.

Of course, when I am older and richer and have cash burning holes in my pocket, this good bourbon vs. 0 bourbon issue will probably mean nothing and my attitude about great bourbon will change accordingly. Until then, though, I say "power to you up there, but I think I'll stay down here on the low-mid shelf".

Edited August 3, 2012 by CoMobourbon

[CoMobourbon]

It goes to show the power of suggestion.

[JPBoston]

I'm a big fan of Ezra Brooks 90 proof. While I wanted to like other cheap bourbons - OF Signature, HH BiB, even Beam Black - I just couldn't get into them in the end. EB, on the other hand, I have trouble not picking whenever I want a glass of whiskey.

I've noticed that my current bottle is very, very different from my last one. The last one was dry and creamy, and this new one is sweet, a bit woody, and has a bit of rye spice. I love both profiles.

Anyway, my friends see me drinking this and OGD BiB and they think all I drink is crap. When they blanch, I tell them, oh, it's not so bad, and give them PVW15 or an old SW. They think they're rotgut, too! It goes to show the power of suggestion. I could pour VVOF into a cheap-looking bottle and all I'd get would be winces.

Hahaha, great story.... and well in-line with your screen name.

I also live in the lower mid-shelf range (price-wise). Stuff like OWA, BT, OGD BIB, and EC12. Knob Creek seems to be my favorite so far, at $27. I've stayed away from the Van Winkles and higher priced bourbons just to avoid getting caught up in it. EWB has been my favorite, standard cheap pour.

My birthday is in November, so maybe that will be a good excuse to try to find a Pappy Van Winkle.

[ebo]

True. But, in my limited experience, great bourbon is almost never so much better than good bourbon that it is worth its exponentially higher price tag.

Think of it this way. Great bourbon is better than good bourbon, but good bourbon is EXPONENTIALLY better than no bourbon. So when great bourbon is EXPONENTIALLY more expensive than good bourbon but only somewhat better, I will reach for the good stuff every time in order to avoid the no-bourbon dilemma. Even if the the great bourbon is better, and often it is, I would still get ripped off shelling out 3x-10x more money.

Of course, when I am older and richer and have cash burning holes in my pocket, this good bourbon vs. 0 bourbon issue will probably mean nothing and my attitude about great bourbon will change accordingly. Until then, though, I say "power to you up there, but I think I'll stay down here on the low-mid shelf".

:toast:

............

[StraightNoChaser]

Can't say I'm in on this train. After all the amazing whiskey I've had everything else just tastes plain bad. I'll keep drinking the good juice only

[Young Blacksmith]

aaw, come on, you enjoyed that old antique! Honestly though, I'm a whiskey whore. If it says whiskey on the bottle I'll give it a fair shake, and see how it settles out. Yes, there have been bourbons I've poured down the drain, and more that I mixed with a little bitters and ginger ale, but on the whole I like whiskey too much to be snobby.

[mosugoji64]

aaw, come on, you enjoyed that old antique! Honestly though, I'm a whiskey whore. If it says whiskey on the bottle I'll give it a fair shake, and see how it settles out. Yes, there have been bourbons I've poured down the drain, and more that I mixed with a little bitters and ginger ale, but on the whole I like whiskey too much to be snobby.

I'm with you there. I'm always up for trying new bottles and am sometimes surprised by unexpected gems about which I wasn't initially excited.

As far as price goes, for me price is only one factor in the value of the whiskey. If price were the only factor, I wouldn't drink anything but HH 6yr BIB since it's $10/bottle here. Finding a bottle that is 2, 3, or 4 times as good to justify the added expense is difficult. If a sip of any particular whiskey makes me think, "Oh yeah, that was worth it," then it was. Barrel-proof bottles tend to justify their prices for me in that I get twice as many pours out of them. Either I water them down or linger over them at full strength over the course of an evening. That said, there are some bottles that are prohibitively expensive for me, but then that's what SB parties are for. :grin:

[unclebunk]

I'm a big fan of Ezra Brooks 90 proof. While I wanted to like other cheap bourbons - OF Signature, HH BiB, even Beam Black - I just couldn't get into them in the end. EB, on the other hand, I have trouble not picking whenever I want a glass of whiskey.

I've noticed that my current bottle is very, very different from my last one. The last one was dry and creamy, and this new one is sweet, a bit woody, and has a bit of rye spice. I love both profiles.

Anyway, my friends see me drinking this and OGD BiB and they think all I drink is crap. When they blanch, I tell them, oh, it's not so bad, and give them PVW15 or an old SW. They think they're rotgut, too! It goes to show the power of suggestion. I could pour VVOF into a cheap-looking bottle and all I'd get would be winces.

Man, ain't that the truth! Because I have so much more bourbon on hand than all of my friends, over time every one of them has become a critic. So even if I give them something special (which they invariably know absolutely nothing about) they start spouting off about "this one's too astringent" and "that one's got too much burn." And I'm thinking, "No shit, jackass. It's GTS at 140 proof!" Or they'll turn their noses up to fine budget whiskies like VOB or Dixie Dew when they see the $12 price sticker and start crowing about the "real kickass bottle of Basil Hayden" they've got at home. If they could only read my mind when I privately mutter obscenities.:slappin:

[bllygthrd]

"Of course, when I am older and richer and have cash burning holes in my pocket, this good bourbon vs. 0 bourbon issue will probably mean nothing and my attitude about great bourbon will change accordingly."

[bad_scientist]

Or they'll turn their noses up to fine budget whiskies like VOB or Dixie Dew when they see the $12 price sticker and start crowing about the "real kickass bottle of Basil Hayden" they've got at home. If they could only read my mind when I privately mutter obscenities.:slappin:

[mosugoji64]

My wife makes me take the price tags off my dusties! She thinks it makes them look cheap and not worth offering to guests... Oh man, words haven't yet been invented for the out-of-place feeling I get then...

Those of us in the know realize that price is not a reliable indicator of quality. Screw the hipsters! I'm keepin' my HH BIB ...

[bad_scientist]

Man, ain't that the truth! Because I have so much more bourbon on hand than all of my friends, over time every one of them has become a critic. So even if I give them something special (which they invariably know absolutely nothing about) they start spouting off about "this one's too astringent" and "that one's got too much burn." And I'm thinking, "No shit, jackass. It's GTS at 140 proof!" Or they'll turn their noses up to fine budget whiskies like VOB or Dixie Dew when they see the $12 price sticker and start crowing about the "real kickass bottle of Basil Hayden" they've got at home. If they could only read my mind when I privately mutter obscenities.:slappin:

Oh boy, last week I stopped in a store to pick up some 4RSB, and a businessman/lobbyist/politician waltzed into the bourbon section. He asked an employee, "Do you have any, uh, Van Winkles? Maybe a Pappy 12? I missed the other Pappies this year."

Good grief.. Anyway, despite getting some great advice and even samples of single barrel picks from the very enthusiastic employee, he waited until the employee left and told another guy to get him a bottle of Basil Hayden!

Those of us in the know realize that price is not a reliable indicator of quality. Screw the hipsters! I'm keepin' my HH BIB ...

/flies the flag proudly

[callmeox]

The reasons above are why I don't talk price when doing a tasting.

I had malt drinkers chins dropping with VOB and Ritt BIB when they learned the retail price after the session.

I do struggle with the snob idea because we are talking about matters of personal taste. People prefer what they prefer so there's really no wrong answer.

[CoMobourbon]

I reached the "older" stage, but with weddings, kids buying homes and grandchildren ... the "richer and have cash burning holes in my pocket" stage has evaded me. So good cheap bourbon prevails.

Hey, come on now; A kid's gotta' dream!

[MyOldKyDram]

Simple solution there. Don't have children!

[CoMobourbon]

Simple solution there. Don't have children!

Oh no no - I meant me. Forget my future kids.

[boss302]

Currently enjoying some Dickel No. 12, washed-down with a glass of the Weis grocery store brand White Birch Beer (a North-Central Pennsylvania favorite!). Simple, honest, and tasty! Possibly following this up with some Evan Williams 1783 that I recently picked-up from out-of-state (it's great to have friends in Delaware!)

Next time, I will likely pick up a 1.75L bottle of Henry McKenna. I am currently seeking out the best of the "bargain" bourbon brands (McAfee Benchmark No. 8 is my current favorite of that category), and would love to give that one a spin.

It's good to hear the perspectives of fellows who have been drinking bourbon far longer than I on this matter. Keep them coming!

[mosugoji64]

Currently enjoying some Dickel No. 12, washed-down with a glass of the Weis grocery store brand White Birch Beer (a North-Central Pennsylvania favorite!). Simple, honest, and tasty! Possibly following this up with some Evan Williams 1783 that I recently picked-up from out-of-state (it's great to have friends in Delaware!)

Next time, I will likely pick up a 1.75L bottle of Henry McKenna. I am currently seeking out the best of the "bargain" bourbon brands (McAfee Benchmark No. 8 is my current favorite of that category), and would love to give that one a spin.

It's good to hear the perspectives of fellows who have been drinking bourbon far longer than I on this matter. Keep them coming!

Not to hijack the thread, but I LOVE that Weis White Birch Beer! The only one I like more is Kutztown. Have you tried that one? The PA birch beers have spoiled me for most root beers.

[unclebunk]

Not that it's easy to come by here in Chicagoland, but I've been digging the hell out of JTS Brown BIB for months now and that's quickly becoming a "go to" under $20 bourbon for me. Too bad that it's also becoming the "go to" for all my friends when they stop by, as I can't seem to keep up with the demand.:grin: