Bottled In Bond

[fishnbowljoe]

I bought a few BIB’s amongst other things while I was at the KBF last week. I finally had some time to add my recent purchases to my cabinet. I did some rearranging and cleaning, and while doing so, I decided to take an inventory of my BIB’s. When I got them all separated, I found out that I had a few more than I thought I did. I had to smile a little. It brought back some memories from a number of years ago when I was fairly new to the site. I remember in chat a few times when Mozilla talked to me a lot about BIB’s. At the time, I gave BIB’s mostly just passing thoughts since I was more interested in other things. I received some samples and bottles from various sources, and bought a bottle or two here and there to start with. Now, over the years, I’ve become more and more interested in them. I can see where Jeff was giving me some good advice on the taste and value of BIB’s back then. Next to wheaters, BIB’s have become some of my favorite bourbons.

We’ve talked about a lot of things when it comes to BIB’s. There’s been talk of specific bottlings like Old Fitz BIB and JW Dant BIB, label changes like VOB BIB, BIB’s no longer being produced such as AA BIB, and talk of old and new versions. We’ve discussed BIB’s in chat, and this months BOTM is HH and EW BIB. So here’s a new thread just for BIB’s. Let‘s have some fun. Please remember to be civil. I’d hate to have to delete my own thread. :skep: Just kidding. Cheers! Joe

The pic below is my 100 proof heaven. :grin:

[Clavius]

I'm a big fan of VOB BIB. HH White Label BIB is also pretty good for less than $10.

[soonami]

I like the history of how BiB was developed and knowing that in general BiB whiskeys are very good values for the juice inside

[GOCOUGS2002]

Old Fitz BIB is one of my all time favorites...and Jeff, while dusty hunting in Houston, pointed me in the right direction when it came to BIBs. I thank him and this board for opening my eyes and draining my wallet in search of present and past treasure.

[GaryT]

I picked up my first VOB BIB at the KBF, and hope to give that a try this week. I don't have that many BIB in my stash, but the scant few comparisons I've done leads me to wonder why!

[p_elliott]

I like the BIB unfortunately I think they are going the way of the dinosaur. The new bourbon drinker just doesn't understand what BIB means or get the implication that "It's the good stuff". So I think the distilleries are moving away from BIB. There are so many bourbons out there that could be labeled as BIB that are not.

[HighInTheMtns]

I have not had much BIB because there isn't much available to me. I did just order (thanks largely to the current BOTM thread) a HH6 BIB and a VOB BIB. I've also had OGD BIB. Drank my first pour of the HH6 last night.

In general, I am pretty enamored with the concept of BIB whiskeys; I like knowing where the whiskey was distilled and where it was bottled. In the cases of both the bottles I just got, the BIB information combined with a 6 year age statement gives a lot of knowledge about this whiskey that isn't available on a lot of other bottlings.

I am a sucker for high proof and so that aspect works well for me. I think 100 proof is a great bottling proof for standard releases; it's low enough that there probably aren't many barrels whose proof ends up lower, and so it gives the distiller the maximum flexibility possible when it comes to barrel selection while still maintaining a high proof for the consumer (who of course can subsequently cut it to his desired drinking proof.) The value of HH6 BIB for $10 at 100 proof is just much greater for me than EWB at the same price.

Sadly I have to agree with Paul that these are going the way of the dinosaur. Even when the brand and proof point doesn't go away (Old Forester Sig, VOB) the BIB label does, relieving the distiller of the requirement of disclosing distillation and bottling locations. For Brown-Forman and Sazerac, this makes sense (from an operations perspective at least) considering that each is operating multiple DSPs; unfortunately it means less information will make its way to the consumer. The only distiller that seems to me to have any commitment to BIB is Heaven Hill. Sazerac is bottling the high-end Old Taylor releases as BIB while simultaneously removing the BIB label from their value brands. Here's hoping HH doesn't rethink things!

[Flyfish]

Does anyone know if KC qualifies as a true BIB? It's 100 proof, all from same year (9 YO), and the same distillery. There is no DSP # on the label, though. Is that because KC isn't BIB or because their marketing people wanted to create a more elitist image with this small batch, "limited quantity" thing? (Is it possible that BIB drinkers are just not a cool demographic in the minds of 28-year-old marketers?)

[callmeox]

The rule is same distilling season, not the same age. It is possible that it contains 9yo bourbon from multiple distilling seasons.

[sutton]

The rule is same distilling season, not the same age. It is possible that it contains 9yo bourbon from multiple distilling seasons.

I thought age stated (vs BIB) was a minimum age - so 9 yo could contain older bourbon. By definition, isn't a given BIB the same age?

[callmeox]

No. BIB can contain bourbon of two different ages if it is a product of the same distilling season. The age of he younger component will be listed.

[Restaurant man]

No. BIB can contain bourbon of two different ages if it is a product of the same distilling season. The age of he younger component will be listed.

Im not seeing how that is possible. Bourbons of the same distilling season can't be different ages

[luther.r]

What if one was vatted?

[Restaurant man]

Vatted as in tanked? Seems like it would work but never heard of it. Seems like a lot of trouble

[callmeox]

If you dump a barrel from the first day of the season and a barrel from the last day of the season at some point between their relative birthdays and mingle them then you have combined whiskeys of two different ages that qualifies as BIB as long as if meets the other requirements.

[sutton]

Thanks - I think I understand what you are saying. A bottle-in-bond that is 4 yrs old might contain bourbon that is 4yrs to 5yrs old ... the first barrel distilled on say Jan 1 2007 and the last barrel in that season distilled on Dec 31 2007 - then all blended and bottled on Jan 1 2012. The last barrel being 4 yrs old when dumped, the first 5 yrs old. Is that right?

[Josh]

I like the BIB unfortunately I think they are going the way of the dinosaur. The new bourbon drinker just doesn't understand what BIB means or get the implication that "It's the good stuff". So I think the distilleries are moving away from BIB. There are so many bourbons out there that could be labeled as BIB that are not.

Four Roses Single Barrel and Rock Hill Farms (the early ones were actually labeled BiB) are the ones that come to mind. Are there any more?

Edited October 1, 2012 by Josh

[callmeox]

The calendar year is broken up into two distilling seasons.

To make it easy, just use June 1 as the divider. You can dump barrels from Jan 1 and May 31 and call it a bond if the other rules are followed.

If you combine barrels from May 31 and June 1, you can't call it a bond since the barrels are from different seasons.

If you dump barrels from Jan 1 and May 31 on April 10th, you have bourbon of two different ages but it qualifies as a bond as long as the other rules are followed.

If you look for pics of old tax stamped bonds you will often see them marked with Fall or Spring on the tax stamp like the Old Fitz mini below. That's a reference to the distilling season.

Edited October 2, 2012 by callmeox

[Brisko]

To answer an earlier question, yes, Knob Creek would qualify as BiB if they chose to label it that way (my source is Chuck Cowdery who has posted to that effect more than once). I don't think they're looking for that image, though.

Considering it's Beam, I imagine they dump those KCs a soon as they're 9; they've shown no interest in aging anything further...

[Josh]

To answer an earlier question, yes, Knob Creek would qualify as BiB if they chose to label it that way (my source is Chuck Cowdery who has posted to that effect more than once). I don't think they're looking for that image, though.

Considering it's Beam, I imagine they dump those KCs a soon as they're 9; they've shown no interest in aging anything further...

[HighInTheMtns]

Not labeling it as BIB allows some distillers, Beam included, more flexibility than just distilling season.

A 9 year old KSBW BIB is 100 proof, and consists of straight bourbon distilled at one site in Kentucky in one season. The entire bottle consists of whiskey of the same age, within a few months.

A 9 year old 100 proof KSBW non-BIB, such as Knob Creek, consists of straight bourbon that is 9 years old, or older, and distilled in Kentucky. This allows for young-tasting 9 year old barrels to be aged for additional time until they meet the brand profile. It allows for the whiskey to have been distilled at multiple sites (Clermont and Boston in this case). It allows the distillation site to be kept secret. In times of shortage this would allow for purchased barrels to be included.

Many brands that have gone from BIB to 100 proof are owned by companies who own multiple stills (Old Forester BIB/Sig, VOB BIB/100.) When they became non-BIB, the information immediately available about them became less.

DISCLAIMER - I am not saying that any of these whiskeys contain distillate from multiple locations. I have absolutely no knowledge about their provenance. Every bottle I have named in this post is one that I would, and do happily drink. But I don't believe they meet the criteria set out for BIBs unless they're labeled BIBs. I think that distillation season is a more likely reason for removing the BIB label than distillation location, but it is not the only reason someone might do so.

Also, conceivably, an age-stated non-BIB 100 proof could be a better whiskey than an age-stated BIB, depending on the quantity of older whiskey included in the dump.

Edited October 2, 2012 by HighInTheMtns

[p_elliott]

Four Roses Single Barrel and Rock Hill Farms (the early ones were actually labeled BiB) are the ones that come to mind. Are there any more?

Any 100 proof SB is a BIB

[Josh]

Any 100 proof SB is a BIB

How many of those are there? The only others I can think of are McKenna & Col. Taylor Single Barrel, but both are labeled as a BiB.

[callmeox]

Any 100 proof SB is a BIB

True as long as it is at least 4 years of age.

[camduncan]

Joe, if you don't have one, I need to get you a Beam Gold Label BIB that seems to be an Aussie/NZ only release....