K&L Fear Tactics?

[Lazer]

I think everyone reading this thread deserves a bit of context here:

-This message was pasted from a K&L consumer email sent out to insider customers, not posted on a blog or website or spread to the masses. It speaks for K&L only and makes no mention of what will be facing customers who shop elsewhere.

-We sell about 12-14 bottles of Weller 12 a day (without the holiday rush).

-As of right now there are zero bottles of Weller 12 left in CA distribution with no ETA. I know this because I bought everything that was left on Friday.

-We now have 200 bottles, which will last us about 14-17 days if people don't start buying more to stock up (which they have). Many of our customers do not shop elsewhere. They like to be able to walk into the store and get their favorite bottle when they want to.

-Once these bottles sell out I will not be able to get any more until distribution gets more and, like I said, they have no ETA. Normally they'll have a memo in their system that says "12/15" or some other date when the next shipment is due. Like I said in the message, maybe it shows up next week, or maybe next month. Who knows?

-This is a courtesy to K&L customers who shop here. At no point does this say that people can't get Weller 12 elsewhere. It's merely to say "If you're in the habit of buying Weller 12 at K&L, then you might want to buy a few next time you're here." At no point does it say buy a case, or two cases, or three cases.

-If we never sold a bottle of Weller 12 again we wouldn't even notice the profit margin difference. There's not really a ton of cash in the $25 Bourbon market. While it might be nice to rake in the moolah from big sales, it's not going to happen with 200 bottles of Weller 12. Believe me.

I think this getting blown a bit out of proportion.

[David D]

Oh yeah?!?! Then why are you telling everybody that Weller 12 is going NAS and showing everybody fake COLAs?!?! Come on David, you're just a big whiskey fear-monger. :grin:

Fear-mongering makes my job so much harder, trust me. As if the 50 emails/voicemails/requests a day from Pappy/BTAC hunters weren't enough.

What's sometimes unclear to people is how different retailers move product differently. I understand it when people hear me talk about selling something out in a few hours, only to hit their local shop and see a pile of it. I've written about that subject pretty extensively. Nevertheless, we're an online store with live inventory so people tend to check with us first - that way they can secure it without having to drive over or walk into the store. For that reason, we have to put a one bottle limit on Black Maple Hill and it still sells out in about a day every time we get a drop (and as far as I know we get the biggest allocation of anyone - 120 bottles or so per round). It's become such a problem that we have to take it off the internet once RWC and SF sell through because the Bay Area people then pull what's left out of the Hollywood store and it creates 60 one bottle orders all going right back where they came from (the BMH distributor and owner is actually just down the street from us in RWC - a friend of the store).

We have a protocol now for Black Maple Hill, just like we have for Pliny the Elder beer and other hot items. I have to comb the order queue over and over to delete orders from sneaky people who create multiple accounts to allow for extra allocations, or then go back and order a single bottle again. We also had to stop putting it in the store, letting it sell through online, because people would invariable try to buy every bottle on the shelf then throw a temper tantrum when they got to the counter and we told them they could only get one. I would try and explain to them that the only reason they're getting one is because we stopped other people from doing the same, but it doesn't seem to make sense to them. Many of our customers think BMH is a K&L brand because they don't see it at Safeway or BevMo, so they expect us to have it when they want it. I think we grossly overestimate how many people buying Bourbon actually put any research into their purchase.

I think K&L makes maybe $1000 a month gross profit on Weller 12 if sales keep going the way they are. That's less than 1% of our December booze earnings (actually less than half a percent). We could buy a barrel of Buffalo Trace or Four Roses, send out an email, and make double that in about two hours. It's not really a strong basis for any fear-mongering economy. If I wanted to fear-monger for profit I'd probably start with Macallan 18 and go up from there.

Edited December 3, 2012 by David D

[Rockefeller]

David, can't we just get straight to the point and answer what everyone actually cares about? WHEN IS VAN WINKLE COMING AND HOW DO WE BUY ONE WITHOUT GOING THROUGH THE K&L LOTTERY SYSTEM?! CAN I BUY MORE THAN ONE BOTTLE?!

[David D]

David, can't we just get straight to the point and answer what everyone actually cares about? WHEN IS VAN WINKLE COMING AND HOW DO WE BUY ONE WITHOUT GOING THROUGH THE K&L LOTTERY SYSTEM?! CAN I BUY MORE THAN ONE BOTTLE?!

Yes, but you need to take all those requests to David OG :cool:

[Josh]

Thanks for posting, David.

Weller 12 does have periodic shortages... this has been happening for several years now. (This may not be happening / apparent in markets that don't sell a lot of Weller 12.) The basic reason is lack of aged wheated bourbon stocks at BT. (This is the same reason they dropped the age statement on OWA.) Weller 12 now gets released roughly twice a year --- as distillations reached the twelve year mark. I'm sure BT has ramped up production and the shelf stocks will eventually level out.

I don't think Lot B has anything material to do with this. Compared to the Weller expressions, its sales are the proverbial drop in the bucket.

John is right, as usual.

Relax, kids.

[Rockefeller]

With all the hooplah, I went out to my local store in NYC and bought a Weller 12 to try for the first time ($19 pretax) this past Saturday.

My response to a potential shortage: who cares? Weller 12 (this guy's opinion only) is average at best. I'd have no problem using it to mix cocktails but probably wouldn't sip it neat anytime in the future. I ended up giving it to my gf for future baking projects - I caught her once using Lot B for a sweet potato pie!

[Lazer]

I caught her once using Lot B for a sweet potato pie!

And she's still your gf? that's a deal breaker for me. :cool:

[Rockefeller]

And she's still your gf? that's a deal breaker for me. :cool:

I think that's way better than catching your gf drinking all your whiskey AND no pie!

[Lazer]

I think that's way better than catching your gf drinking all your whiskey AND no pie!

you misunderstood, I don't care about the whiskey, she can have all she wants, I just hate sweet potatoes. :grin:

[Kyjd75]

I don't know about other states, but I can tell you that Weller 12 is definitely not available for purchase by retail stores through their distributors in Kentucky at the present time. The distributor I know has no time table for when it will become available again. It was last distributed in the fall on allocation. My local stores ordered 10 cases, received 3. Some very large stores (i.e. Liquor Barn) may still have some in inventory, but no new supply is available as of now.

[Rockefeller]

People should be directing their searches for Weller 12 here :

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?16683-Help-a-Fellow-SB-Member-Find-a-Bottle-of

$19 in NYC!

[frayed99]

My response to a potential shortage: who cares? Weller 12 (this guy's opinion only) is average at best.

Same here, but, meh, whatever. To each his own. This whole thread is one giant head-scratcher.

[cowdery]

One highly flawed premise seems to be driving this, which is that 'everybody' now knows that Lot B and Weller 12 are virtually the same juice, and therefore all of the Van Winkle crazies are going to re-aim their craziness at Weller 12. This premise is flawed because the Van Winkle crazies are also ignorant. They don't know anything about anything and even if they learn something about Weller 12 being close to Lot B, they wouldn't care because it doesn't say 'Van Winkle' on the label and that's all their small and distracted brains can handle. "Must ---- buy ---- Van Winkle."

The whole point of being a knowledgable bourbon consumer, which is the whole point of straightbourbon.com, is that you can walk into a store anywhere and at anytime and if they have any kind of bourbon selection, you can walk out with one or more bottles that you know you'll enjoy, and maybe even a good value or two.

But I also agree that SB.com would be less fun if people didn't go over the top here sometimes.

[MyOldKyDram]

We all go a little mad sometimes.

[Josh]

My response to a potential shortage: who cares? Weller 12 (this guy's opinion only) is average at best.

That's only your opinion? Glad to hear it. I was about to announce that my opinion that Lot B is overpriced and overrated and that Weller 12 was just as good or better at a much lower price had changed until I saw your disclaimer. Thanks, pal.

[Rockefeller]

That's only your opinion? Glad to hear it. I was about to announce that my opinion that Lot B is overpriced and overrated and that Weller 12 was just as good or better at a much lower price had changed until I saw your disclaimer. Thanks, pal.

[CoMobourbon]

Whoa..."Peasant?"

Could we maybe tone down the SES tension a little? I mean, I know that this site kind of exists to perpetuate a 'whose 750ml d--k is more expensive?' contest, but "Peasant" seems a little over the line.

[CoMobourbon]

Back to the topic:

On some level, I sympathize with savagehenry's reaction, but overall I would concur that this particular case of potential-whiskey-shortage-hyping is negligible in the grand scheme of things.

First of all, it is obvious that whiskey salesman David's motives are not snow white innocent. From what I have read - and I do catch up on his KL journal occasionally - David is earnestly devoted to customer service and is accordingly a great source of genuine inside information. But that customer service and inside information necessarily involves self-interested salesmanship, and this message feels like an example of the latter (as it did to savagehenry). It has already been pointed out that the basis for a Lot B driven shortage of Weller 12 is shaky at best, and the coincidence of a purchase of 200 Weller 12's and this message doesn't make me feel any better. While probably not directly concerned about money or even moving his product, David is at least clearly trying to make KL look good. ('Hey guys, we are the kind of smart place that sees your needs coming before you even know that you have them. This is a time of bitter whiskey shortages, and KL is there to guide you through the wilderness.' etc.)

But really, if there is a crime here, it is obviously a small, small one from generally reliable people, their totally understandable self-interest notwithstanding. This was a message sent to a circle of already loyal KL customers about a product that KL was going to sell easily and was not going to make much money on. If the real point of the message was a commercial to confirm KL's image as a consumer advocate in a harsh market, then they were preaching to the choir anyway. There was no moment where David schemed this up in some dimly lit KL backroom, villainously twisting his handlebar mustache.

But still, I feel you savagehenry. This whiskey market works in an environment of shortage-hyping, and sometime it feels like someone should be blamed for it.

Edited December 4, 2012 by CoMobourbon

[Josh]

Peasant

OK, that's officially the weirdest insult I've ever received online.

[Cigar Dan]

Josh,

The "peasant" comment was way out of bounds, certainly. However, it was your sarcastic belittling of Rockefeller's opinion that precipitated it. He even prefaced his comment that Weller 12 is mediocre by saying that it was his opinion only. I have no idea why you would have been offended by that and reply in such an unwarranted manner.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[Josh]

Josh,

The "peasant" comment was way out of bounds, certainly. However, it was your sarcastic belittling of Rockefeller's opinion that precipitated it. He even prefaced his comment that Weller 12 is mediocre by saying that it was his opinion only. I have no idea why you would have been offended by that and reply in such an unwarranted manner.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

I thought the peasant remark was funny actually.

You miss my point. I was belittling his felt need to place a disclaimer after his opinion. I find the practice annoying.

[Brisko]

I thought the peasant remark was funny actually.

You miss my point. I was belittling his felt need to place a disclaimer after his opinion. I find the practice annoying.

<sarcasm> Maybe he meant to type pedant. </sarcasm>

:grin:

[Josh]

<sarcasm> Maybe he meant to type pedant. </sarcasm>

:grin:

That would make more sense.

Wait, are you being sarcasctic? I can't tell.

[SWC]

My opinion is that you are all nuts.

Thank you.

[Rockefeller]

No no no. It's pretty clear that I called him a "peasant" because he is a simple mid-western farmer who can only afford to drink Weller 12 and has to save Lot B for special occasions. When a fancy yankee (who uses PHC6 to scrub out stubborn dish stains) turns their nose at that top-shelf Weller 12, he goes on the attack!