Ohio: Bourbon desert or home of unappreciated brands?

[callmeox]

Ohio members often complain about the lack of bourbon selection in the state that acts as a hat to the eastern flank of Kentucky. How much of this is a real problem and how much is just grumbling for grumbling's sake?

Ohio is a special kind of control state, so its rules present a challenge to distillers and wholesalers. As a bailment state, all liquor in the state controlled warehouses belongs to the wholesaler up until the time that it is delivered to a retailer where it becomes the property of the state liquor commission or to a bar/restaurant/etc where it is owned by that establishment. Yep, entire warehouses of hooch that are still on someone else's books...great deal for the state IMO. Also, rarely are new products made available to all stores across the state, especially when you step in to the premium category. When Four Roses extended into Ohio, they were given shelf space in roughly 50 stores across the state for their products (going by memory there). It has taken them 3 years to expand the availability (via pull, not push) to the footprint that they have today.

If you're a wholesaler or producer fighting for retail shelf space for the equivalent of dead stock sitting in Ohio's warehouses, what's your motivation to bring high priced products into a stale environment? I'm not sure there is any unless you're up for the fight.

The next challenge is that all liquor on retail shelves is sold on a consignment basis. Retail pricing is set by the state with any local price variations being due to the differences in county tax rates or special assessments (like the Cuyahoga county 'sin tax' to finance the Gateway project). If you explore the state website, you can see the prices differences by county.

For example, a bottle of Eagle Rare Single Barrel retails for $30.95 in Cuyahoga county (including taxes) but only $29.95 in neighboring Lorain county.

Retailers make as much profit on a $30.00 sale of cheap vodka handles as they do a $30.00 bottle of bourbon so there's little reason to push premium brands.

The state made $794 million in liquor "proceeds" for 2011, so don't look for the system to change any time soon. Liquor is a big cash cow for the state and they're looking to mortgage the future profits for other needs. That's a topic for PR&C, but necessary to point out for the big picture.

With all of that in mind, here's a quick summary of what we can get here in our state controlled liquor haven:

All three Four Roses standard expressions

Evan Williams Single Barrel

Elijah Craig 12 and 18

Buffalo Trace

Rare Breed

JTS Brown BiB :grin:

Eagle Rare SB

Elmer T. Lee

Weller SR is on the list but OWA is not, so we're hurting as far as wheaters are concerned (outside of the Makers and M46 line).

Tack on the entire Beam line, Brown-Forman stuff like Woodford and Old Forester and Barton's 1792, and all of the majors are accounted for. VOB 100 handles in one store in Franklin County is a good sign unless someone special ordered a case for themselves

Many of the premium brands can be special ordered if you want a case lot

What else would be on your Ohio wish list for daily pours?

Edited December 23, 2012 by callmeox

[squire]

I've never bought a bottle of whisky in Ohio. My few visits there I was either driving through or close enough to Kentucky that it didn't matter. The presence of Barton BIB is an encouraging sign.

[ebo]

I know I can probably get "some" different stuff if I'm willing to travel 20 or more miles for it. I'm not willing to waste the gas or the time on it, so, I suppose that's on me. I can pretty much mail order anything I want, but... someone of age has to be available for delivery. My wife and I both work too many hours to insure that either one of us is home. Neither of my daughters is old enough to sign, so...............

unfortunately, the only two "real" stores only carry a limited number of "good" whisk(e)y of any kind. Selection is definitely limited to the standard fare. the stores closest to me only carry the most popular brands. Most of them have even stopped carrying JW Black...lol. Basically, the stores close to me cater to low wage, wino types. I know that sounds un PC, but it's just the truth. There is not enough high end consumers to warrant them carrying anything but what they can move quickly. I understand that, but it's very frustrating not to be able to purchase something if you want it.

I could never purchase PHC, BTAC, WTKS, etc..... (that I'm aware of) around here. Other than the "normal" high/er end stuff, I've never seen most of the stuff you guys talk about on this forum...... and I likely never will.

[clingman71]

ETL was a welcome sight when it hit in'11. You hit the bullseye with the wheater statement. We have seen a tiny VW allotment the past two years, but no W12 or OWA, and no Larceny. There is a small amount of BTAC, but in SW Ohio, it is almost exclusively sold from retailers to restaurants and bars. It isn't great here, but it has definitely improved in the recent past.

[Phil T]

Off the top of my head Ox, these are the daily pours I'd like to see available to us:

HH BIB 6yr

OGD 114

Ritt BIB

Mellow Corn

PS..I'm thinking the JTS Brown was discontinued about a year ago?

[ebo]

Off the top of my head Ox, these are the daily pours I'd like to see available to us:

HH BIB 6yr

OGD 114

Ritt BIB

Mellow Corn

PS..I'm thinking the JTS Brown was discontinued about a year ago?

I have never understood why we can get OGD BiB, but not 114.

[squire]

Yeah I know, locally I can get Barton 86 but not 100, in Memphis I can get Barton 80,86,90 and 100 but the trip isn't worth half a days time and $50 worth of gas.

[squire]

I can get OGD 86, 100 or 114 locally though so guess I'll just stay put.

[Young Blacksmith]

Don't fret too much, sounds like the rural market where I live. Sure, I can drive to Dallas to find just about anything, but off your wish lists I can't get:

Ritt BIB

Mellow Corn

HH BIB 6 yr

PHC

and only one store carries VOB BIB. Most carry 86 though, a new product for us.

Also no new taylor stuff out here.

BTAC is hit or miss, usually Stagg and ER 17 are buyable for a day or two. This year I passed on both as they were almost $120. WTKS is possible in certain stores too.

[callmeox]

I know I can probably get "some" different stuff if I'm willing to travel 20 or more miles for it. I'm not willing to waste the gas or the time on it, so, I suppose that's on me. I can pretty much mail order anything I want, but... someone of age has to be available for delivery. My wife and I both work too many hours to insure that either one of us is home. Neither of my daughters is old enough to sign, so...............

unfortunately, the only two "real" stores only carry a limited number of "good" whisk(e)y of any kind. Selection is definitely limited to the standard fare. the stores closest to me only carry the most popular brands. Most of them have even stopped carrying JW Black...lol. Basically, the stores close to me cater to low wage, wino types. I know that sounds un PC, but it's just the truth. There is not enough high end consumers to warrant them carrying anything but what they can move quickly. I understand that, but it's very frustrating not to be able to purchase something if you want it.

I could never purchase PHC, BTAC, WTKS, etc..... (that I'm aware of) around here. Other than the "normal" high/er end stuff, I've never seen most of the stuff you guys talk about on this forum...... and I likely never will.

How close are you to the Fishers store that ThomasH raves about? They seem to have a good reputation and are happy to hook up special orders.

WTKS was on the list as recently as two years ago. It didn't sell, so they dropped it. WTAS met the same fate.

Off the top of my head Ox, these are the daily pours I'd like to see available to us:

HH BIB 6yr

OGD 114

Ritt BIB

Mellow Corn

PS..I'm thinking the JTS Brown was discontinued about a year ago?

Funny, as I was grocery shopping after my earlier post, it struck me that the OGD 114 was missing from my 'entire Beam line' statement. It hit me when I took a call from a guy at work asking for help finding a good, cheap bottle of bourbon. I steered him away from Old Crow and to the OGD BiB. Missing the 114 is big hole, as well as the HH BiB.

I picked up a case of Ritt BiB in Stark Co. a number of years back after DeanSheen tracked it down via phone. He and I split it up after I muled it back north. May be worth a special order reqest.

I saw the JTS 100 on the shelf at a great store in Mentor over the summer but there are jut 14 stores with either the 750 or handle listed on the state site, so you may be correct that it is on its way out. I put a few away after Parker Beam signed them for me in Bardstown.

I'm not a corn fan, but it would be cool to have a reasonably priced option. 13th Colony corn is available at a premium.

I have never understood why we can get OGD BiB, but not 114.

I feel the same way, but it is available in PA at a good price. That's where I've been known to cure my "burnt corner of the brownie pan" bourbon jones.

[ThomasH]

Ebo, the Giant Eagle at Market and Easton in the Washington Square center is an excellent store too. Had some BTAC earlier as well as E.H.Taylor rye. Also some nice scotch too. If you order online, most places ship Fedex. As soon as they email you a tracking number, go to their website and have the package sent to a Fedex office location. They will notify you when its delivered. There is one on whipple across from Belden Village mall. I am the king of missed deliveries as I work 25 miles from home. The Fedex arrangement works brilliantly. order away!

Thomas

[ThomasH]

If it can be ordered, your local store can get it. If an independent doesn't want to bother, a local Giant Eagle will. A few mediocre stores around here got bought out by Giant Eagle and now are top notch!

Thomas

How close are you to the Fishers store that ThomasH raves about? They seem to have a good reputation and are happy to hook up special orders.

WTKS was on the list as recently as two years ago. It didn't sell, so they dropped it. WTAS met the same fate.

Funny, as I was grocery shopping after my earlier post, it struck me that the OGD 114 was missing from my 'entire Beam line' statement. It hit me when I took a call from a guy at work asking for help finding a good, cheap bottle of bourbon. I steered him away from Old Crow and to the OGD BiB. Missing the 114 is big hole, as well as the HH BiB.

I picked up a case of Ritt BiB in Stark Co. a number of years back after DeanSheen tracked it down via phone. He and I split it up after I muled it back north. May be worth a special order reqest.

I saw the JTS 100 on the shelf at a great store in Mentor over the summer but there are jut 14 stores with either the 750 or handle listed on the state site, so you may be correct that it is on its way out. I put a few away after Parker Beam signed them for me in Bardstown.

I'm not a corn fan, but it would be cool to have a reasonably priced option. 13th Colony corn is available at a premium.

I feel the same way, but it is available in PA at a good price. That's where I've been known to cure my "burnt corner of the brownie pan" bourbon jones.

[ebo]

How close are you to the Fishers store that ThomasH raves about? They seem to have a good reputation and are happy to hook up special orders.

WTKS was on the list as recently as two years ago. It didn't sell, so they dropped it. WTAS met the same fate.

I go there often. It's one of the "good" stores around here. Sill. they really don't have a big selection, IMO. They have a better selection, but still nothing out of the norm.

[ebo]

Ebo, the Giant Eagle at Market and Easton in the Washington Square center is an excellent store too. Had some BTAC earlier as well as E.H.Taylor rye. Also some nice scotch too. If you order online, most places ship Fedex. As soon as they email you a tracking number, go to their website and have the package sent to a Fedex office location. They will notify you when its delivered. There is one on whipple across from Belden Village mall. I am the king of missed deliveries as I work 25 miles from home. The Fedex arrangement works brilliantly. order away!

Thomas

Thanks for the info. I'll try that.

[ebo]

I go the Giant Eagle on Raff Rd. If they can order stuff for me, I'll definitely go that option.

[theglobalguy]

First trip i ever made to TPS on way to family gathering in Ohio, stopped only to see a tour bus full of folks stopping. Watched as they FILLED carts with what to me were common brands/products (as i'm based in Louisville, bourbon and whiskey are plentiful). Was just dumbfounded until i learned later of the control state in Ohio and such different rules. Had to laugh that for all the efforts to control, all they were doing was losing tax revenue to bordering states.

[Phil T]

Thanks to a tip from Thomas, I called pretty much every store in a 50 mile radius for both VW and BTAC. I located just one store that had either. One lonely GTS.

I drove 30 miles one way to discover it was CEHT SB, not GTS. I passed but was shocked they had the Taylor. They did have Baby Saz, which I bought. That shocked me also.

[ThomasH]

I hit all the stores in Stark county. I basically go by each on the way home from work except one, and that one my parents live near. I can send them to get bottles at that store!

Thomas

[callmeox]

First trip i ever made to TPS on way to family gathering in Ohio, stopped only to see a tour bus full of folks stopping. Watched as they FILLED carts with what to me were common brands/products (as i'm based in Louisville, bourbon and whiskey are plentiful). Was just dumbfounded until i learned later of the control state in Ohio and such different rules. Had to laugh that for all the efforts to control, all they were doing was losing tax revenue to bordering states.

It seems that way, but the state netted $251 million dollars in profit on $825 million in sales for the most recent fiscal year so I don't think they are worried about cross border sales. Prices are not out of line compared to the neighboring states, it's the selection that tends to suffer.

If folks like ebo won't make the drive for specialty stuff, will the average consumer bother when the top 10 sellers are as listed below (from 2011)?

(that's over 168,000 cases of Kamchatka and over 147,000 cases of Jack)

From: http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2012/01/19/ohio-booze-sales-reach-record-level-in.html?page=all

[h=4]Top 10 selling liquor brands in Ohio[/h]

1. Kamchatka Vodka – 401,148 gallons
   
2. Jack Daniels Tennessee Whiskey – 349,589 gallons
   
3. Bacardi Superior Light Rum – 291,559 gallons
   
4. Captain Morgan Spiced Rum – 284,606 gallons
   
5. Absolut Vodka – 274,549 gallons
   
6. Smirnoff Vodka – 271,679 gallons
   
7. Crown Royal Canadian Whiskey – 271,497 gallons
   
8. Jagermeister – 257,774 gallons
   
9. Korski Vodka – 231,916 gallons
   
10. Black Velvet Canadian Whiskey – 192,244 gallons
    

[theglobalguy]

(that's over 168,000 cases of Kamchatka and over 147,000 cases of Jack)

1. 
   

Astonishing is the word. Can't say i'd even heard of that vodka brand until now. Which goes back to your point about "why sell higher quality goods when cheap brings in same profit". Can see why each state is highly protective of it's current laws (i.e. massive tax revenue for little effort) but have to think it hits critical mass in coming years.

[mosugoji64]

Hey Scott - you forgot about Old Dan Tucker. That MUST be state's most unappreciated brand. You Ohio boys have it good!

Edited December 24, 2012 by mosugoji64

[squire]

Oh that's a great name, somebody tell me about Old Dan Tucker.

[callmeox]

It's a diluted bourbon sold in some of the finest gas stations and convenience stores in the state.

Ohio allows 42 proof "diluted" spirits to be sold, so there's a whole line of diluted crap that you can get if so inclined.

[clingman71]

Old Dan Tucker was a fine old man

He washed his face in the frying pan

He combed his hair with a wagon wheel

And died of the toothache in his heel

Get out the way for old Dan Tucker

He's too late to git his supper

[squire]

How could it be both 'diluted' and Bourbon on the same label? Oh, never mind, I can look that up if my interest holds long enough to type it in.