is barrel-finished bourbon a mistake?

[sob0728]

I have not had the PHC 2011, however, I have had Angel's Envy and Maker's 46. With scotch, the barrel finish of a cognac barrel (or just french oak) and sherry butt or port pipe often delivers a lot of flavor to the base spirit because it seems scotch is just a bit more delicate to begin with. With bourbon it just seems like barrel finishing just produces an off-tasting flavor that never really integrates with the spirit. Anyone other thoughts on this? I think the bourbon just overpowers the sherry or french oak influence and it just tastes off, instead of adding something to the product. I love Glendronach 12 and Compass Box Oak Cross, but I just can't get into the "finished" bourbons.

[weller_tex]

I have not had the PHC 2011, however, I have had Angel's Envy and Maker's 46. With scotch, the barrel finish of a cognac barrel (or just french oak) and sherry butt or port pipe often delivers a lot of flavor to the base spirit because it seems scotch is just a bit more delicate to begin with. With bourbon it just seems like barrel finishing just produces an off-tasting flavor that never really integrates with the spirit. Anyone other thoughts on this? I think the bourbon just overpowers the sherry or french oak influence and it just tastes off, instead of adding something to the product. I love Glendronach 12 and Compass Box Oak Cross, but I just can't get into the "finished" bourbons.

While working in Australia a few years back there were few bourbon choices. One of them was the Port-finished Beam. I bought a bottle out of curiosity. It was actually pretty tasty stuff. Surprising.

[Tony]

I think I am more the exception here but I really enjoy the PHC 2011 and Angel's Envy. I find it to be something a little different that is nice to turn to sometimes.

Best regards, Tony

[cowdery]

Maybe what you had was a different product, Weller Tex, but Beam was at one time selling a bourbon and port in Australia, which actually contained a little port wine, as opposed to being finished in port barrels. Canadian whiskey often contains port and other wines.

Rather than call them a 'mistake,' I'd like to give barrel-finished bourbons a chance. You're right about the difference between barrel-finished scotch and barrel-finished bourbon, but I'm not prepared to conclude it can't be done. I thought the Chardonnay-finished WR was successful, but many did not. I like Maker's 46 and PHC 2011 very much. The Cognac-finished Parker's is probably the best barrel-finished bourbon I've had. I didn't care for Angel's Envy at first but it has grown on me. New Holland's Beer Barrel Bourbon is very successful. Filibuster Rye, which is MGPI Indiana Rye finished in French Oak wine barrels, tastes odd and fails. It's a good example of the problem with two strong flavors competing.

One problem is that some people (you know who you are) are using finishes as a panacea, to mask a too-young or otherwise flawed bourbon. If you've tasted any MGPI Indiana bourbon that has not been finished, you know why so much of it is. Maker's, on the other hand, was careful to use fully-aged, first rate Maker's for 46. They weren't trying to fix anything, just trying to make something a little different.

Edited February 26, 2013 by cowdery

[Gillman]

Angel's Envy tastes a little young to me and I believe the finishing was to try to cover that a bit. In my experience, finishing doesn't really work with younger spirits. It can work if you blend them, but that is different and many involve adding other spirits and the wine proper.

For old bourbons, I guess the question is, can it help? I think it can partly cover over bourbons that are considered quite old and I understand that this was the logic of finishing the first Distiller's Masterpiece in port barrels, to soften some of that age and tannin. So palliative again or sort of.

For mid-aged products, say in the sweet spot of 6-12 years, hard to say. I am not sure the finishing really adds much and it may take away, but I am open to trying further products before calling it a day.

Gary

[VAGentleman]

I really enjoyed the Abraham Bowman Port Finished. It was a 7 year old bourbon. The barrel used was a Bowman bourbon barrel that was sent to a wine company who aged their port in it, then sent it back to Bowman to finish the bourbon. It really softened the taste at the edges and added a hint of sweetness.

[weller_tex]

Maybe what you had was a different product, Weller Tex, but Beam was at one time selling a bourbon and port in Australia, which actually contained a little port wine, as opposed to being finished in port barrels. Canadian whiskey often contains port and other wines.

Yep you are right Chuck, my mistake. Thanks for setting me straight. It was pretty good though.

[camduncan]

Maybe what you had was a different product, Weller Tex, but Beam was at one time selling a bourbon and port in Australia, which actually contained a little port wine, as opposed to being finished in port barrels.

I had a bottle on the table at the Gazebo during the 2008 Sampler but it remained unopened. It ended up going to Cliff's house and being opened for a side-by-side comparison with a duty free Wild Turkey Sherry finish. It's nearly 5 years ago now, so my only recolection was that I thought the Beam product was better, which is not saying much as I'm generally not a fan. Having said that, I have sampled and think highly of Makers 46, Woodford Seasoned Oak, Angles Envy and PHC Congac Finish. Are they every day bourbon pours (for me)... No. But they are interesting diversions from the norm when the mood takes me in that direction.

[Borchard]

I've really liked Makers 46 so far. I think the extra time with the wood staves gives it something that MM is lacking.

[MyOldKyDram]

Never had a bad one to my recollection, luckily. Like the 46, PHC, Angels Envy, and Beer Barrel. Would kill to try the Bowman. Never had any of the Woodford. So far finished bourbon is just fine by me.

[WAINWRIGHT]

I enjoy a finished bourbon from time to time,but I find I tire of them rather quickly.I do enjoy the likes of the Bowman,PHC and AA when the mood does strike me they are all quite enjoyable.

[ER07]

I'm a big fan of finished bourbon when done correctly. I think Angels Envy is a solid bourbon and love 46. I did however have some Dryfly Port finished Wheat Whiskey recently and have to say it was just awful

[squire]

To me they are what they are, just something different. I don't feel a good Bourbon needs a 'finish' but the process adds a flavor dimension the whisky wouldn't otherwise have, so, to each his own.

[LostBottle]

I don't think finished bourbon is a mistake, some people like it. The mistake is the absurd price that seems to be attached to it, e.g. Angel's Envy CS.

Edited February 28, 2013 by LostBottle

[TheNovaMan]

A friend of mine told me about Angels Envy after he had some at either a wedding or bachelor party. I looked into it, and found out it was finished in port barrels, which displeased me. This friend of mine managed to talk me into splitting a bottle with him (about $49-50 in MI), and I was prepared to be very disappointed by a bourbon that tasted like it was contaminated with port. To my great surprise, it tasted very good, and I bought his half of the bottle.

With that said, I have to agree with Squire and William; it seems like a gimmick that serves as an excuse to charge way more than they otherwise could get away with charging.

[squire]

A gimmick when it's used to disguise flaws in a whisky, certainly, but I believe the Henderson's are putting out a quality product with Angel's Envy, just trying to create something different to find a market segment. Not for me though, not at that price anyway.

[Bourbon Boiler]

I like MM46, and I really like Woodford 2O, although it's too pricey. Pritchard's Double Barrel is a keeper in my book too.

[Bourbon Boiler]

I don't think finished bourbon is a mistake, some people like it. The mistake is the absurd price that seems to be attached to it, e.g. Angel's Envy CS.

[Bmac]

Here's a better question, why do "barrel finished" bourbons only age 6 - 8 months in the 'new barrel?' Is there a law against it aging longer? Scotch uses used barrels in general and lets them age 10 + years. I think bourbon would start to see more benefit from those finishing barrels if it spent more time in them. I like the 2011 PHC, but having tasted only 1 cognac (Hennessy Privilege) I can't taste the influence. Not sure I want to blow my bourbon budget on a bunch of cognac I might never drink.

[HighInTheMtns]

Here's a better question, why do "barrel finished" bourbons only age 6 - 8 months in the 'new barrel?' Is there a law against it aging longer? Scotch uses used barrels in general and lets them age 10 + years. I think bourbon would start to see more benefit from those finishing barrels if it spent more time in them. I like the 2011 PHC, but having tasted only 1 cognac (Hennessy Privilege) I can't taste the influence. Not sure I want to blow my bourbon budget on a bunch of cognac I might never drink.

There are plenty of scotches that are finished in a similar way to these bourbons (the Glenmorangie line provides several examples.) Bourbon can't be entirely aged in used cooperage the way other scotches are - 'cause then it couldn't be called bourbon.

[squire]

Bmac there's no reason why a new make Bourbon style whisky couldn't be aged in the same type casks that Scotch producers use but, as Jim says, it couldn't by law be labeled Bourbon. Kentucky Whisky perhaps but not Bourbon. As to the shorter term used by the finishers, well, that's just the length of time they choose to use and it's entirely discretionary with the finisher.

If the Bourbon is good in the first place it doesn't 'need' finishing but some producers do it and some customers like it and are willing to pay more for it, so, vive la difference.

[Brisko]

Here's a better question, why do "barrel finished" bourbons only age 6 - 8 months in the 'new barrel?' Is there a law against it aging longer? Scotch uses used barrels in general and lets them age 10 + years. I think bourbon would start to see more benefit from those finishing barrels if it spent more time in them. I like the 2011 PHC, but having tasted only 1 cognac (Hennessy Privilege) I can't taste the influence. Not sure I want to blow my bourbon budget on a bunch of cognac I might never drink.

Even Scotches that are finished typically aren't finished for more than a year, though there are some exceptions. Keep in mind finishing is intended to impart flavor, not maturity, and is accomplished fairly quickly. The assumption of course is that the whiskey has already reached peak maturity in its original barrel. That's not to say that finishing is never used to cover up young or unbalanced whiskey, though.

[ThirstyinOhio]

I enjoy most of the barrel finished bourbons that I've had and feel that it simply adds something different to the marketplace. I won't say that barrel finished is better than a non finished bourbon by any means, just something different. To me, its no different than when I make a cocktail such as an old fashioned, maybe I'll muddle a cherry maybe I won't, I enjoy it both ways, just depends on my mood.

[Trey Manthey]

I'm a purist. I only drink new make whiskey so I can taste the essence of the mashbill. Anything that has been aged in a barrel or cask is tainted by the wood.

[squire]

I am also a purist. I refuse to have a drink until I'm fully awake.