Would Like Opinions About Jefferson's Presidential Select 18Yr

[squire]

Though I wouldn't put it past a sales rep either.

[smknjoe]

I know what you meant. When I bought my bottle the sales person didn't try to tell me that it was "Pappy in a different bottle" like many other users here have experienced. The sales rep did mention that it was out of production whiskey though.

[Borchard]

Ok, tonight it seems totally different. I added a few very small rocks, waited for several minutes after I poured, and my JPS 18 is wonderful! Holy crap!

[MarkRuck]

Glad to hear Borchard. I have enjoyed several bottles and a couple different batches of the JPS18 and not been disappointed yet.

Sometimes it pays to think outside the box a little. drinking it neat is not always the best way. I will always taste a bourbon first neat, but I will explore from there.

[White Dog]

Correct information IS tough to come by some times. Case in point; when I was trying to locate another bottle of PVW I was told by more than one proprietor that OVW was not being MADE any more?!? I later found out that this was crap, but this came from two, different people!

Slow down. When you say OVW, I assume you mean ORVW, or Old Rip Van Winkle? They did, indeed, cease bottling the 10yr 90pr, but will continue to bottle the 10yr 107pr, so I can see where there is conflicting out there. Retailers, wholesalers, and supplier reps come in all levels of quality(Just as lawyers, teachers, waiters and professional golfers do.). Your best bet is to search this board for the most thorough information.

[Borchard]

Slow down. When you say OVW, I assume you mean ORVW, or Old Rip Van Winkle? They did, indeed, cease bottling the 10yr 90pr, but will continue to bottle the 10yr 107pr, so I can see where there is conflicting out there. Retailers, wholesalers, and supplier reps come in all levels of quality(Just as lawyers, teachers, waiters and professional golfers do.). Your best bet is to search this board for the most thorough information.

Sorry about that. I should have read my post before posting. I meant Pappy Van Winkle, not ORVW. Sorry for the confusion.

[Meruck]

There can be no doubt about the quality and richness of the SW juice pre-72 as compared to after that. An Old Fitz, or even Rebel Yell from the VW era is an unmistakable pour, not to mention the OW107. The post 72 through 92 production has only but a memory of the real stuff. I would put the OW107 up against ANY bottle of today. But then that's just one guys opinion and you know what that's worth.

Edited March 6, 2013 by Meruck

[T Comp]

There can be no doubt about the quality and richness of the SW juice pre-72 as compared to after that. An Old Fitz, or even Rebel Yell from the VW era is an unmistakable pour, not to mention the OW107. The post 72 through 92 production has only but a memory of the real stuff. I would put the OW107 up against ANY bottle of today. But then that's just one guys opinion and you know what that's worth.

My first name is not Thomas but I'm a doubter :grin:. I think there is great tasting post '72 DSP-16 bourbon including some probably distilled in the late 80's. Gold veined OWA's are some of my favorites and even one with an anchor bottle imprint as late as '95 (which had a faux tax strip? And could have been from DSP-113 ). There was a 90 proof Cabin Still brought to the gazebo last year by Bobby Cox which I recall was post '72 distilled and a favorite of many among many. You still only had 2 master distillers after 1970, Woody Wilson and Ed Foote starting in '83. Not saying there weren't the changes and it all was stellar but those MD's were still working some magic. Of course I'm also somebody who doesn't taste a difference from the "air" time needed for wheaters that many speak to here.

[amftx]

Is everyone else seeing the current bottlings/releases sans-red wax seal?

I have yet to taste this one, but I am looking forward to it.

[clingman71]

Whiskey is for drinking, enjoy it!

Word!

An unopened bottle is an unfulfilled promise.

This may be my new favorite bourbon related statement!

Among other things, I'm the spirits manager for an upscale 3 store family owned chain. I was at a Fedway event in Atlantic City last year. Fedway is a large distributor that has the exclusive on BT, PVW and Jefferson. I had a long discussion with the regional distillery rep who told me about the blend (as I was sipping the Presidential at his table.) Also, he told me that they had extra bottles labeled 18yr that they put the 20 yr Presidential in. Actually, if you look, the little tag on the 18yr bottle says bottled in 1991.

Actually, the Presidential Select starts out from the old Stizel Weller batch (think Pappy.) However, they blend in a small amount of a bourbon with a high rye content (38%?) so it is a 4 grain; not 100% wheater. The last batch we had was bottled in 18yr bottles but the tag stated that it was bottled in 1991 so it is a 20yr. It's bottled at 94proof but drinks similar to the Pappy 15 107proof. A really nice pour.

Roscoe

It was distilled in 1991, not bottled. I have read that they have tanked this bourbon, if so, whatever age is was at the time of hitting the stainless is its age forever. 18 y/o labels are fine so long as it is at least 18 y/o juice. I have not heard about any blending as of yet, always a possibility as the SW stocks run out, inevitable.

Again welcome and I mean no offense, but here is why I said that.

1. They have no distillery for Jefferson's since they are a Non Distiller Producer. They buy their whiskey form other "unknown" distilleries and actually have someone else bottle it for them (KBD?) Not sure about the bottling part.

2. It was Distilled in 1991 and they started bottling the 17 in 2008/2009. The 18 in ~2009/2010. I don't know if they are still actively bottling the stuff.

3. On their website they even state that the whiskey is from S-W, but it's possible they blended. Haven't heard that one yet on this particular brand.

And you are right, you do have to take their word for it. They SHOULD know what they are talking about. It's been my experience they (distributors) don't many times even though they mean well.

Edit: Now I'm curious about the blending part since that's absolutely possible. I'll shoot an email to Trey Zoeller over at Castle Brands to see what he says.

Misinformation is rampant. I even saw where Jason over at sourmashmanifesto told a reader that ALL of the Jefferson brands were wheaters. JPS is the only wheater the rest are ryed.

I just read the entire Sour mash Manifesto JPS thread, I saw nothing about all Jeff brands being wheated. He says "the distillery is known for their wheated bourbon mashbill", he is referring to SW, not Jefferson's.

There can be no doubt about the quality and richness of the SW juice pre-72 as compared to after that. An Old Fitz, or even Rebel Yell from the VW era is an unmistakable pour, not to mention the OW107. The post 72 through 92 production has only but a memory of the real stuff. I would put the OW107 up against ANY bottle of today. But then that's just one guys opinion and you know what that's worth.

I have a '64-'71 OW107, maybe the best bourbon I've ever had. But, I've had late '70's-'80's Weller that was very close. I agree that the pre-sale 1972 SW is better, but "The post 72 through 92 production has only but a memory of the real stuff." seems a bit of an exageration to me. There is/was some excellent '72-'92 SW bourbon out there.

[smknjoe]

Cling read the last response Jason made in Jan of this year.

Edited March 7, 2013 by smknjoe
Cling got it

[clingman71]

I missed the connection between the question and his response, good catch.

[Meruck]

I have a '64-'71 OW107, maybe the best bourbon I've ever had. But, I've had late '70's-'80's Weller that was very close. I agree that the pre-sale 1972 SW is better, but "The post 72 through 92 production has only but a memory of the real stuff." seems a bit of an exageration to me. There is/was some excellent '72-'92 SW bourbon out there.

Clingman, I had some misgivings about that statement after posted it. Your correct, it is too strong. But based on your post I think you would agree that the current releases of SW juice being touted as ultra premiums (and they are) come in second place to the mid class per-72s. I have had the pleasure of the entire public runs save the VVXOF 15 year (Public being the commercial brands) and the OW107 top three all time for me. I find it largely depends on my mood and per-pour pallet condition. I actually finished a bottle last night. They simply don't last as long as I wish they would, but then I'm weak.

[Bmac]

I am going to offer my two-cents on the subject. I bunkered as many JPS18 as I could. I toured a bottle through many a party. I converted people who hate bourbon into loving this bourbon. 3 people demanded I sell them my bottles. Again, these were scotch and vodka snobs who hated bourbon, and think it's a homeless man's drink of choice. With such an attitude, I refused to sell them my bottle. But it goes to show that even though the SW stocks they use, as not being PVW quality, it's still kick @$$ bourbon. Some of the best available. Two cents...well spent...

[Meruck]

I'll see your 2 and raise you 3 more. I too have bunkered as much as I can, thanks to my brother that is. It may not be my most best favorite, but it is "fine bourbon".

[amftx]

There's a 21 year coming this April.

[Diesel]

Will the 21yo be cut with a rye bourbon too like the 18yo? Was the 17yo cut or was it straight S-W juice?

[squire]

Who knows? We can only see the screen, the wizard remains behind the curtain.

[clingman71]

Clingman, I had some misgivings about that statement after posted it. Your correct, it is too strong. But based on your post I think you would agree that the current releases of SW juice being touted as ultra premiums (and they are) come in second place to the mid class per-72s. I have had the pleasure of the entire public runs save the VVXOF 15 year (Public being the commercial brands) and the OW107 top three all time for me. I find it largely depends on my mood and per-pour pallet condition. I actually finished a bottle last night. They simply don't last as long as I wish they would, but then I'm weak.

I agree, but possibly don't feel the gap is so big as to not enjoy the most recent. It's all good, some was beyond good.

I am going to offer my two-cents on the subject. I bunkered as many JPS18 as I could. I toured a bottle through many a party. I converted people who hate bourbon into loving this bourbon. 3 people demanded I sell them my bottles. Again, these were scotch and vodka snobs who hated bourbon, and think it's a homeless man's drink of choice. With such an attitude, I refused to sell them my bottle. But it goes to show that even though the SW stocks they use, as not being PVW quality, it's still kick @$$ bourbon. Some of the best available. Two cents...well spent...

I'll see your 2 and raise you 3 more. I too have bunkered as much as I can, thanks to my brother that is. It may not be my most best favorite, but it is "fine bourbon".

Exactly. I find my TPS selected JPS18s to be superior to current PVW 15 and at least the equal of current PVW 20, my $.02.

The notion of wheated bourbon being blended with rye is questionble to me, at least with the earlier bottlings. The new JPS 21 doesn't mention wheat at all on thee label from he pics I've seen.

[p_elliott]

There's a 21 year coming this April.

What butt are they pulling these barrels out of because they only had 400 of them 3 years or 4 years ago. They are now 21 years old there are not that many bottles in a 21 yr old barrel. I do believe something is a miss.

[Wryguy]

What butt are they pulling these barrels out of because they only had 400 of them 3 years or 4 years ago. They are now 21 years old there are not that many bottles in a 21 yr old barrel. I do believe something is a miss.

The new JPS21 is decidedly not SW juice. As to its provenance, anyone's best guess is probably better than mine.

[squire]

They're just playing the only tune they know Paul. Of the millions of gallons of Bourbon aging away in warehouses in Kentucky I'm sure there a few old barrels available for a price.

[p_elliott]

They're just playing the only tune they know Paul. Of the millions of gallons of Bourbon aging away in warehouses in Kentucky I'm sure there a few old barrels available for a price.

So they are being actively deceptive because in the past people associated this whiskey with SW.

[clingman71]

This is just an observation, no inside info to back it up. Who of the major distillers today has any stock of aged whiskey? The only two that come to mind are HH & BT(AA mash bill or early BT mashbill?). The only other possibility I can think of is "found " barrels of a closed distillery, not SW. They stated 21-24 y/o whiskeys blended together in the new JPS 21. So the question is: what distilleries ceased production '88-'92?

[squire]

That's an inside baseball question clingman. The short answer is all the majors have aged stock but more to your point when SW stopped distilling in 91-92 they didn't empty the warehouses so how much aged whisky is still there? That answer is not yet apparent.