Today's bunkerable bourbon

[Meruck]

Like many of you I spend an increasingly larger and larger amount of time seeking dustys. Those gems of yesteryear that we wish we would have bought all in sight during our youth.

with the current explosion in bourbon popularity, what will be tomorrow's dustys from today.

Will we all regret not loading up on Weller 12 before the age statement fell off, or will it be something else, and what?

what is tomorrow's DSP-16-KY

Edited March 3, 2013 by Meruck

[ErichPryde]

Bourbon Reader's Digest, May 18th, 2018

A New Item on the PLCB List: Tom Moore Small Batch Reserve Bourbon

The Sazerac company's ownership of Tom Moore/Barton has brought their distribution to an all time high recently, as brands like Very old Barton, 1792, and the new and improved Tom Moore Bourbon hit shelves in nearly every retail liquor store in the US and some places overseas. But not everyone is happy with the greater availability of these whiskeys and the new flagship bourbon, Tom Moore Small Batch Reserve Bourbon. Bourbon Reader's Digest has taken this interview to the increasingly whiskey-educated public to find out what people think of their new whiskey options.

"First they axed Barton bottled-in-bond, one of my favorites, then they took the age statement off of 1792 so they could make this new, Ultra Premium Bourbon," Complains a bourbon drinker who would only tell us he goes by Squire. "I mean, not that the quality of 1792 kept up with the increased demand. To some of us, that was like the Wild Turkey 8 year of the 2000's, but I guess I was never that picky, and it's too late now" he went on to say.

Other people had very positive reviews of Tom Moore Small Batch Reserve, one noteable bourbon reviewer published an amazing review in another widely known whiskey journal (albeit, one that used to cover more Scotches than bourbons! Readers, stick with us, We cover bourbon, rye, and all things American here!). The reviewer described his taste of Batch #1 as "Well rounded, with a sweet foundation (toffee, vanilla, custard) and pleasant nuts (pecans and walnuts) that blend well with the underlying fruits (plums and figs)... One of the best Barton whiskies I have ever tasted, much better than Ridgemont Reserve (and it's predecessor Ridgewood, too!)" That reviewer rated this whiskey at a solid 95.

He's not the only one raving about the new Tom Moore. "It's the best thing that [sazerac] has released in the last 6 years, I like it a lot better than the so-called "Stagg Jr" they released in 2015," posted one enthusiast in response to our latest web article. Another said the only thing holding him back from 'bunkering' the stuff in large amounts was the price. "It fits right into the ultra-premium crowd with [Russel's Reserve Single Barrel] at 65 dollars a bottle. Good, but I won't be buying it regularly."

But what is to become of Barton's previous 'flagship,' 1792 Ridgemont Reserve? As the bourbon reviewer here at Bourbon Reader's Digest, I feel sorrow that 1792 has gone the way of so many other bourbons out there, losing its age statement and a drop in quality with every batch. But that's the great thing about bourbon today- So many new brands out there!

But what do I think of this new Barton Whiskey? That will have to wait for our next live webisode! Until next time readers, Cheers!

[clingman71]

I think you're on the mark with Weller 12. Possibly some age stated cheaper bottles like AAA. I've been trying to build a stash of retailer selected SB OWAs, the last few have been 8ish y/o.

[HighInTheMtns]

Very nicely done Erik!

[ramblinman]

I'm very new to the intricacies of bourbon marketing but would it make much sense for Weller to remove the age statement from the 12? Seems that as its the top of that particular line it'd keep the age and a little "clout" behind that one.

[ErichPryde]

I'm very new to the intricacies of bourbon marketing but would it make much sense for Weller to remove the age statement from the 12? Seems that as its the top of that particular line it'd keep the age and a little "clout" behind that one.

Probably not! But then, Sazerac & Company love to pull them age statements!

[jcg9779]

I'm very new to the intricacies of bourbon marketing but would it make much sense for Weller to remove the age statement from the 12? Seems that as its the top of that particular line it'd keep the age and a little "clout" behind that one.

I hope not, but you've seen it happen before. "WT 8yr" became "WT Old No. 8." "Weller 12" could become "Weller Old No. 12" somewhere down the line. But again, I hope not.

[GaryT]

I hope not, but you've seen it happen before. "WT 8yr" became "WT Old No. 8." "Weller 12" could become "Weller Old No. 12" somewhere down the line. But again, I hope not.

With temperatures rising and aged stocks depleting, I think we'll see more and more age statements disappearing - in part because at that age the product just wouldn't be consistent with the past flavor profiles. A 12 yr may start to taste older, so they may need some younger juice just to bring it in line with taste expectations.

I do think Weller 12, maybe EC 12, will be highly sought out after they are changed. It is already nearly impossible to find any Bourbon Supreme these days!

[squire]

Erik I wouldn't trust a guy who refuses to give out his last name.

[Trey Manthey]

I'd venture that this is probably the worst time to be "buying in" to whiskey as a long term hobby. There is a bit of a crisis right now with age statements dropping and stocks depleting, but producers are reacting by increasing their volume and putting away more product to age. Even PVW has announced that they will be making more.

I believe that whiskey as a worldwide trend is peaking now, so I only buy what I need unless it's something I know I will never see again. It will be a long time (maybe never) before we enter into another glut period, but I'm not going to panic buy and hoard standard products in reaction to the popularity increase.

[HP12]

I'd venture that this is probably the worst time to be "buying in" to whiskey as a long term hobby. There is a bit of a crisis right now with age statements dropping and stocks depleting, but producers are reacting by increasing their volume and putting away more product to age. Even PVW has announced that they will be making more.

I believe that whiskey as a worldwide trend is peaking now, so I only buy what I need unless it's something I know I will never see again. It will be a long time (maybe never) before we enter into another glut period, but I'm not going to panic buy and hoard standard products in reaction to the popularity increase.

I would say this is a fair and rational assessment. Well stated.

[squire]

I will stock up on 8 year old Barton Rye, when they start making it.

[Meruck]

I would agree that it doesnt seem prudent to try to courner the market on Beam or Makers (86 of couse), but if I find some I particullarly enjoy I would certainly want to have a few additional bottles of it. If I find a truley unique and pleasing single barrel I may chose to spend my allowance on that. But every now and then something very special comes along and when that happens bunkering may be required. As a new member SB; although I just made apprentice, I cant imagine a better place to learn if there is something "very special" out there that warrents consideration. And thanks to this thread I have to go out and hunt down a bottle of Tom Moore Small Batch Special Reserve, just to see.

[ErichPryde]

That would be amazing juice--- 8 year old barton rye, that is. I'd be it sight untasted.

[ErichPryde]

But seriously- my satirical post from earlier aside, I think there is a strong case for 1792 and other, similar, age stated whiskeys.

Wild Turkey 8 year was a standard release years ago. It was more expensive than some bourbons, but it wasn't an ultra-premium. In 1986, almost no one expected it to go away. Very few people were stockpiling huge cases of it. People were focusing on the premiums, buying Wild Turkey 12 year, Very old Fitz, whatever there was out there (and I know there wasn't a lot). People were drinking Wild Turkey 8 year, but it wasn't rare, or mysterious, or sought after. It was just darn good bourbon.

As Wild Turkey increased distribution and new labels with Rare Breed, and then Kentucky Spirit, the quality of the 8 year went downhill, and the age statement disappeared. All of a sudden, the old 8 year wasn't just "any bourbon," it was the bourbon that so many people had to have.

We could make the same case for Weller 12, but Wheaters have come into the spotlight as desirable bourbons to drink. Perhaps the age statement will go away, I don't know. as distribution increases, and Buffalo Trace increases other labels (like the VW brand) why not?

It comes down to money. If I can axe one brand, or better yet, reduce its quality without effecting sales, in order to come out with another, higher-priced brand, I will. So perhaps Weller 12 will be added to the list. Perhaps the quality of the current Four Roses Single Barrel will go downhill.

I'm not concerned with ultra premium, limited release stuff. Why? Because it's bunkerable from the moment it hits shelves. Everyone knows that FRLESmB is going to be gone quick. We all want it, because of that.

How many age stated, above 90 proof whiskeys are out there? 1792 is a great whiskey for 22 bucks, and is currently just any other ol' release. But perhaps, as Sazerac increases distribution, it will become a highly prized dusty if it bears the red 8 on the back label.

[squire]

Sazarac renamed the distillery 1792 so they have some sort of plans for the brand.

[smokinjoe]

I could pretty much go on with anything going away, or changing. Wouldn't necessarily make me happy, but I could survive. Plenty of great whiskies out there that I can sub in...Except for one...There is my Golden Child...OGD 114...If they ever look to do something with OGD 114, Katy bar the door, I'm loading up. I will pillage every store, in every county, of every state, to guarantee myself a life-long supply.

In all seriousness though, I have been thinking of beginning a regular bunkering program for it, as it's continuation in it's present form seems tenuous to me. By offering 114 with all of it's positives, I know Beam loves us today, but will they still love us tomorrow?

[ethangsmith]

My guesses:

Wild Turkey 101 Rye (I already stocked up....)

1792 (At least loss of age statement)

Old Grand Dad 114 (Beam seems to have little interest in probably their best products...)

Fighting Cock (Bet it loses its age statement....)

Old Overholt (Beam just went from 4 to 3 years old, I could see them dumping it completely)

Old Ezra 101 and Ezra Brooks Single Barrel (Like Heaven Hill has tons of whiskey to fork over for this stuff all the time....)

Michter's Unblended American Whiskey (I have a hunch it will be replaced by the newer and better Sour Mash 86pf)

Knob Creek (I could see it losing the age statement)

[Meruck]

Thanks Ethan, that's a great list and some I have not tried. I will make the Old Grandad 114 my next buy since your the second to name it. I was lucky enough to score 2 bottles from the late 60s recently. I haven't opened them yet as one will go to my brother and we will drink together, Long distance anyway.

[SFS]

Did two threads get combined at post #15? The headers changed.

[Meruck]

I think there was a use of the advanced reply function. Thanks for paying attention.

[MauiSon]

I'd venture that this is probably the worst time to be "buying in" to whiskey as a long term hobby. There is a bit of a crisis right now with age statements dropping and stocks depleting, but producers are reacting by increasing their volume and putting away more product to age. Even PVW has announced that they will be making more.

I believe that whiskey as a worldwide trend is peaking now, so I only buy what I need unless it's something I know I will never see again. It will be a long time (maybe never) before we enter into another glut period, but I'm not going to panic buy and hoard standard products in reaction to the popularity increase.

[Trey Manthey]

Bourbon ain't gold. For one, we're not really limited by how much can be produced; they can always make more whiskey. Also, gold is a universal commodity, whereas bourbon is a consumable good. Not reusable, and totally renewable. However, unlike other trendy collectible panic buys and hoarding patterns that happened with baseball cards, comic books, Beanie Babies, etc., you can always drink your bourbon.

I just believe that there will always be good, cheap whiskey as long as people keep buying it. Brands may come and go, trends will rise and fall, and i'm not going to spend my money and shelf space trying to predict which mid-shelfer is going the way of the dodo. If Buffalo Trace and Rittenhouse shoot up to $40 a bottle in the next few years I will eat my words, and wash it down my dwindling supply.

[Meruck]

The point to bunkering, at least for me is to have a supply of something I really enjoy in the event it goes the way of the dodo. It's not the price or the brand, it's having what I like to drink.

[Trey Manthey]

I get it, but unless there is some reliable indication something is going away...

Some noob will read something here about Weller 12 going away, think it's true or reliable info, and clean out the shelves at three stores. An old timer comes in to pick up a bottle of his favorite and panics when he sees the empty shelf and sends him on the hunt. This cycle will create panic buying and create an artificial demand. It doesn't really matter unless the producer drops quality or raises price to keep up, creating a self fulfilling prophecy.

I see the same thing happening with firearms and ammo right now.