New Mash Bills from LDI/MGP

[LiveFromLou]

This could get interesting in a few years when these get a little age on them.

The additions include the following products: two new rye whiskeys, one made from 51% rye and 49% barley malt, and the other made with 51% rye, 45% corn and 4% barley malt; a 95% wheat whiskey; a 100% barley malt whiskey; and two bourbons, one produced with 45% wheat, and the other produced with 49% barley malt. The production of each is scheduled to begin this month.

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/mgp-expanding-whiskey-and-bourbon-offerings-with-addition-of-new-mash-bills-20130402-00138#.UVr3FByG18E

Edited April 2, 2013 by LiveFromLou
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[ChainWhip]

This hearkens a bit to the "these are the good days" thread - I'm interested in the journey these whiskies will take before ending up in my cabinet :-)

Edit: ending up in my belly!

Edited April 2, 2013 by ChainWhip

[Wryguy]

I'm particularly intrigued by the 51/45/4 rye corn barley mashbill. That sounds like it would be something akin to VWFRR, which to my palate does have a fair amount of corn. (IIRC 51/38/11 is the mashbill for VWFRR). I'd love to taste that at 8 years of age. Can't wait for the 2020s.

[HighInTheMtns]

I'm particularly intrigued by the 51/45/4 rye corn barley mashbill. That sounds like it would be something akin to VWFRR, which to my palate does have a fair amount of corn. (IIRC 51/38/11 is the mashbill for VWFRR). I'd love to taste that at 8 years of age. Can't wait for the 2020s.

51ish percent rye with high corn is the mashbill for Rittenhouse, Baby Saz/THH, WT rye, Beam rye... Basically LDI is adding a typical Kentucky style rye to their lineup.

[Yeti]

Wow, this is exciting news. The 51/49 Rye/Malt sounds extremely interesting, and I'm always looking to try new single malts from here in the states.

[smokinjoe]

This hearkens a bit to the "these are the good days" thread - I'm interested in the journey these whiskies will take before ending up in my cabinet :-)

Edit: ending up in my belly!

Which, in turn, segues me to the "What if microdistillers put out something good" thread - I'm much more interested in the new whiskey that LDI/MGP will put out than anything that 99% of the crafts will during the same time period. My confidence factor on the LDI products that they will be "average" to "better" is 80%. I'm saddened to say, my same confidence factor when applied to the micros, is 80% they will be "below average" and "worse"...with just a couple of exceptions...

[WAINWRIGHT]

This is good news,a great step towards the future with the rye resurgence in full swing.LDI/MGP was put out a lot of quality products in the last few years it will be interesting to see how and when these products hit the market.I hope to see a few of these with a good amount of age on them,now all we have to do is wait.

[Josh]

Great news. Hopefully a sign that MGPI is on the way up.

[VT Mike]

Which, in turn, segues me to the "What if microdistillers put out something good" thread - I'm much more interested in the new whiskey that LDI/MGP will put out than anything that 99% of the crafts will during the same time period. My confidence factor on the LDI products that they will be "average" to "better" is 80%. I'm saddened to say, my same confidence factor when applied to the micros, is 80% they will be "below average" and "worse"...with just a couple of exceptions...

Joe, is your lack of confidence in the craft outfits because you feel that they are producing lower quality distillate / still figuring out the art of distillation, or because they tend to age their whiskey for short periods of time in smaller casks to help with short term cash flow?

[smokinjoe]

Joe, is your lack of confidence in the craft outfits because you feel that they are producing lower quality distillate / still figuring out the art of distillation, or because they tend to age their whiskey for short periods of time in smaller casks to help with short term cash flow?

I honestly don't know, Mike. Could be some, or all, of the factors that you mention. Or, something else. It's just that of the multiple craft whiskies that I've tried, I have been totally underwhelmed. Berkshire Mountain Bourbon did taste like a bourbon, at least. So, I have hopes for them. Leopold's Small Batch American Whiskey was nicely flavored, balanced, and worthy of a repeat buy by me, too. I will admit that I believe the micros can do justice to corn whiskey. A couple of crafts have made a corn whiskey that I've enjoyed. I just can't say I have much hope for the bourbons and ryes in general, though.

I'll say that I just have more hopes in the majors expanding their product lines, creating new mash bills and offering palatable experimentals, than I have with the vast majority of micros producing anything even approaching the quality of the very-bottom-shelfers of the majors. But, I hope they keep trying, and prove me wrong.

Again, I am looking forward to what MGP can do with these new mashbills. They surprised the heck out of me with the tastiness of their rye in the various interations out on the market, even though I find their bourbon lacking as compared to other large distiller products.

[dohidied]

A Willet cask strength single malt in 20 years?

[Phil T]

All of this begs the question. Will they sell all of these new whiskies to whomever wants to buy them, or are they going bottle, market, and sell their own brands??

Either way, indeed intriguing.

[AaronWF]

All of this begs the question. Will they sell all of these new whiskies to whomever wants to buy them, or are they going bottle, market, and sell their own brands??

According to Dykstra, the company's new wheat whiskey and wheat bourbon "will be among some of the more unique products of their type" in the marketplace. "The popularity of wheat-based spirits, mainly in the white goods category, has grown in recent years," he said. "We expect this to favorably impact demand for products in the brown goods category, as well, and want to be firmly positioned to help our customers in the branded packaged goods arena meet that demand."

Read more: http://www.nasdaq.com/article/mgp-expanding-whiskey-and-bourbon-offerings-with-addition-of-new-mash-bills-20130402-00138#ixzz2PLJTFsID

Sounds to me that they are diversifying their mashbills due to increased demand from their branded packaged goods customers. I don't see anything about bottling their own juice. On the one hand, it would be great to get to taste a wide range of mashbills from the same distillery. On the other hand, who's to say that the independent bottlers that source their juice from MGPI will reveal which mashbill/blend of mashbills they're using?

It's been kind of comforting to know that when you see some brand's whiskey labeled as distilled in IN, you have a good idea what to expect. With this expansion, independent bottlers' expression will be even more of a crapshoot. I see prices rising and any movement in the industry towards more transparency halted and reversed. Or maybe I'm just being pessimistic.

Maybe I'm taking this too far, but wouldn't the industry benefit more from encouraging consumers' curiosity about the ins and outs of what they're drinking rather than further relying on marketing gimmickry to win sustained interest in a brand? Maybe MGPI can put it in their contract that their bottling customers must supply the mashbill used for the whiskey on the label!

[TheNovaMan]

I think I'd like to try almost all of those!

Aaron, I'm sure prices will go up (they always do), but when MGPI bought LDI, the transparency increased. I suspect we'll see more of everything, from transparency to marketing gimmickery.

[GaryT]

I can't wait to try a 51/49 rye/barley - that strikes me as a "gateway American whiskey" for Scotch fanatics :grin:

[MyOldKyDram]

That one in particular sounds very interesting indeed.

[black mamba]

6-8 years seems like a long time to wait. I hope they have some space available on a 6th floor somewhere!

[cowdery]

All of this begs the question. Will they sell all of these new whiskies to whomever wants to buy them, or are they going bottle, market, and sell their own brands??

Either way, indeed intriguing.

That's been asked and answered. They do not have any plans to create and market their own brands. They intend to be a contract distiller and bulk whiskey producer, selling to the highest bidder.

[BMartin42]

That's been asked and answered. They do not have any plans to create and market their own brands. They intend to be a contract distiller and bulk whiskey producer, selling to the highest bidder.

I agree that it begs the question to be asked AGAIN. It certainly wasn't asked and answered in this thread. No wonder I left this forum for so long. The amount of holier than thou here is worse than any other forum I frequent.

[HighInTheMtns]

Recent posts in the Four Roses Ten Recipes thread have me wondering about this esoteric question: is there an MGPI equivalent to the Four Roses OxSx recipe naming system? Certainly they had one during the Seagram's days, just curious if it's still in use. Kinda related question that's probably more interesting is whether MGPI is using a variety of yeasts.

[cowdery]

I'm tickled about this but I have some reservations. Just about everybody, including me, loves their 95% rye. I have much less love for their current bourbons, which seem a bit off. Now they want to go from about four recipes--one rye, two bourbons, one corn--to at least 10. (They also seem to make light whiskey and maybe one or two other recipes, and are willing to do custom recipes, so we could be talking 12 or more.)

I'm not saying that can't be done, but it's not usually done.

I compare them to Buffalo Trace, a distillery of similar size and vintage. Buffalo Trace has a lot more experience with straight whiskey. What is now MGP of Indiana has mostly made ingredient whiskeys for blends, not straights that have to stand on their own. Of the four whiskey recipes MGP is making now, only one is a bona fide winner. Buffalo Trace, by contrast, limits itself to four whiskey recipes; two rye-recipe bourbons, one wheat-recipe bourbon, and one rye, and is the master of them all. Can MGP be the master of 10, 12, or more different recipes? At best, it'll probably take some time.

You might also compare them to Four Roses, which was once in the same Seagram's family. They're both using proprietary Seagram's yeasts. Four Roses makes ten recipes, true, but they're all rye-recipe bourbon. They are able to switch from one recipe to another on the fly. They don't have to stop everything down to start up again with a new recipe. Can Indiana do that?

On the other hand, I know from spending most of my career as an independent contractor that the key to success for any provider of that sort is versatility. You never say no. You say yes and try to figure out how to deliver. This is the sort of challenge that is high risk, high reward. It pushes a person or a company to take chances and test their own limits. Since you're judged daily, you usually get some of both and just hope you win more than you lose. There's a lot to be said for it--I have no regrets--but success is far from a sure thing.

And, of course, I should live so long to taste one of these new recipes fully mature. I'm especially excited about the 45% wheat bourbon, which presumably will be 51% corn and 4% malt, no doubt with supplemental enzymes. There's never been a wheater with more than about 15% wheat.

The press release says nothing substantial about how these were developed. I sure hope they were at least piloted at some level. Ideally they've run at least one fermenter of each of them through the actual distillery. I don't know, I'll ask.

Edited April 3, 2013 by cowdery

[shoshani]

I'm tickled about this but I have some reservations. Just about everybody, including me, loves their 95% rye.

Speaking of which, I wonder if there's an ice cube's chance in hell that they'd resurrect the original rye mashbill of 95% unmalted rye/5% malted rye, for a 100% rye whiskey...the way it was before Seagram's switched the malted rye content to malted barley?

[tmckenzie]

being as they used to make all flavoring whiskey for the time when blends where popular, I wonder if these are not new mashbills, but ones made in the past being brought back.

[Josh]

being as they used to make all flavoring whiskey for the time when blends where popular, I wonder if these are not new mashbills, but ones made in the past being brought back.

[squire]

Four years and a day from now we will know.