Need Opinions - 2011 PVW 15 vs. 4RSmBLE2012

[CoMobourbon]

So, in summary, there are multiple drawbacks to the 'make the trade that makes you the happiest in the short-term' approach - some more compelling than others.

[nd2005]

Just trying to help a brother out here; again, not sure that you understood his point. His point: even if the quality / pleasure you extract from something is high enough, if you can get proportionately more money for it, then you can turn around and get even more of that quality / pleasurable object. That's how money works. That's why you always want more money; everybody, with their various judgements of value, quality, or taste, takes cash - so you can ultimately get more of what you want with cash by finding those who value that object less.

Exactly. My only point was that if the OP is going ahead with a trade, he should do his best to drive a hard bargain and maximize what he gets out of the deal. Otherwise he is getting fleeced as badly as the person who buys the bottle for $400, and the flipper wins not once but twice.

[TL2000]

Unfortunately I have ethics and something to lose if I get caught illegally selling alcohol... The price isn't the issue, although I wouldn't sneeze at $20 let alone $400. My initial thought was that my 15 year was worth significantly more than the 1 bottle of 4R and I wanted to confirm my opinion. I'm not going to do the trade because I don't want this person to profit off the PWV hysteria any more.

Thanks for all of the opinions, I appreciate the thought that everyone gave this. While this definitely isn't life or death, it's going to feel like it when I finish off my 4R in a few weeks...

If you feel like making the trade, don't. Sell the Pappy for $400 yourself and buy his FR for $150. Personally I don't help nor deal with the vultures of society at all, so i would have no part in it.

[CoMobourbon]

I disagree with the proposition that after-market sales significantly modify the primary bourbon market.

Really? I mean, I can't say that I have anything more than speculation and anecdotal evidence, but I find it hard to believe that anyone could seriously think that secondary markets have no appreciable impact on primary markets. Really, I am not even sure what to say here.

OK, lets try this classic scenario: retailer prices bourbon X at $80, which is the suggested retail; retailer discovers that online flippers have priced bourbon X at $200; retailer changes his price to $150 or $200. Now, really, in a sense, this is just price adjusting to demand, but the online secondary market price both accelerates and warps this adjustment. It accelerates it in self-evident ways (see previous). It also warps it in the sense that it juxtaposes the demands of a very narrow and abnormal niche market (i.e. the crazy rich but unknowing hipster or yuppie who just has to have the best at any cost) onto the general market (via the all-connectedness of the internet). And the demand level of the niche market does not match that that of the general market. So unless a rich ignorant hipster/yuppie walks in, bourbon X sits on the shelf with a $200 price sticker.

I also see no evil in after-market sales, they provide market liquidity and often prove the greater-fool proposition of bubble economics. There is no moral issue here, that's pure poppycock.

No one is suggesting that the secondary market doesn't have its uses. But, as described above above, there are significant downsides to certain kinds of secondary market sales. And so facilitating secondary market sales inflicts consequences - negative ones - on the community.

In terms of morality, then, one is left to consider the function of consequences in the moral decision-making process. If morality consists only in the act itself, and consequences don't matter at all, then a decision to trade two bourbons is all about preference. Hell, if consequences don't matter at all, then there is nothing at all wrong with selling a known murderer (who insists that he will kill again) a handgun (extreme example, yes, but the point is clear). I mean selling something is OK, right? But if consequences do matter at least some, then decisions like these become more difficult. Yes, the consequences are at worst not all that bad and at best constitute a drop in the bucket - but there are actually negative consequences.

I don't know. I think he made the right choice - one that I hope I would have made. TL, I salute you.

Edited April 8, 2013 by CoMobourbon

[Wryguy]

CoMoBo, do you sleep? We are all edified by your didactic posts on black market bourbon pricing, but, by all means feel free to take a break and have a drink after all that typing. Made me tired just reading it.

[callmeox]

This thread has gone way past the question asked by the OP and it appears that he has gotten his answer.

If you would like to debate the dead horse topic of markets and such, please open a new thread.

[hectic1]

CoMoBo, do you sleep? We are all edified by your didactic posts on black market bourbon pricing, but, by all means feel free to take a break and have a drink after all that typing. Made me tired just reading it.

LOL...I got his point the first time but he evidentially likes to show off his understanding of the fundamentals of economics in a capitalist market. The OP has decided that a bottle of PVW15 is "worth" more the the FR bottle so he isn't going to make the trade even though he has said he likes the FR bourbon better...it is this thought process that I don't understand.

[Halifax]

LOL...I got his point the first time but he evidentially likes to show off his understanding of the fundamentals of economics in a capitalist market. The OP has decided that a bottle of PVW15 is "worth" more the the FR bottle so he isn't going to make the trade even though he has said he likes the FR bourbon better...it is this thought process that I don't understand.

C'mon Bob... You know the drill. You have to extort the extorter. It's about the money... The bourbon wasn't the priority here. It was all about the deal itself.