Rye or Wheat based bourbons, what is you're choice?

[WildernessTrace]

As we begin reviewing our production schedule we are interested to hear more about bourbon drinkers choices.. Rye or Wheat or both? We enjoy both wheat and Rye based but if I had to pick my personal favorite is a wheat based.

As everyone knows there are bourbons at various proofs.. What is you're favorite? Again so many great bourbons but I tend to look for 86-94 proof for my taste.

thank you for any feedback,

Shane Baker

[Danger]

I don't discriminate. But my feeling is that there are a lot of bad wheat bourbons out there, and I find most of them too timid. That said, the very best bourbons I've ever had are wheaters. So there is big variation among them. The rye bourbons are usually all pretty good, and to me its a safe bet and I usually find the profile familiar.

Basically, wheat has the potential for greatness but many times winds up not even good, whereas rye always comes out pretty tasty but very rarely exceptional.

What are you guys making now?

[MyOldKyDram]

Enjoy both but prefer the high rye recipes, for sure.

[WildernessTrace]

We are not in production yet, we still have a few months to go before start up. Our current mash bill(s) are both a wheat and Rye bourbon. We were considering splitting production but always looking into that cloudy crystal ball for better answers.

Most of our research production has been with wheat as I agree, Rye's are typically more predictable.. So far our #4 mash bill is a winner amongst a few master distillers private tasting of our unaged bourbon, when compared to other unaged bourbons..(ready to barrel that is).. But time will only tell..

[squire]

Good morning Shane, since you asked I'll share some thoughts. My preference is for a lean, high rye Bourbon in a dryer style, packed with flavor, fully aged and 100 proof. But that's already being done on a mass production basis with an economy of scale and a price point a small producer can't match.

If I had the skill to make whisky and the ambition to bring it to market I would go another route. A softer, sweeter, nutty style rich with caramel and oak, something with wheat rather than rye, full of flavor yet easily approachable, at around 80 proof. Something that works well in a snifter yet shines in a cocktail. I wouldn't even bother with trying to make it a legally defined Bourbon, rather I would use a grain mix that gave me the best result. How about 45% corn, 45% wheat and 10% malt. Or even 40% malt and 15% wheat. When I found the right flavor profile I would let it age until fully ready before putting it on the market as something special.

The market is full of high quality value priced Bourbon so I wouldn't even try to compete with that, rather I would offer customers something they couldn't routinely grab off a shelf just about anywhere liquor is sold.

[WAINWRIGHT]

I like both as well as for the high rye based I have a tendency to give FR's the nod and with older wheaters the Weller's and PVW's always find their way to the top of my list.I would add that rye for me anyway tend to show better at a younger age whereas wheaters the sky seems to be the limit.

[WildernessTrace]

Thank you again, very good view points and this will be apart of our discussion Monday.. We have tried to approach with a more unique product through our process as well as our relationship with our grain farmer and mash bills. We have messed around with various mash bills and there are a few that were added to the list, with our flexibility we wanted to possibly offer some variances, but our limited production just has us "measuring three times and cut once approach"..

[CoMobourbon]

Good morning Shane, since you asked I'll share some thoughts. My preference is for a lean, high rye Bourbon in a dryer style, packed with flavor, fully aged and 100 proof. But that's already being done on a mass production basis with an economy of scale and a price point a small producer can't match.

If I had the skill to make whisky and the ambition to bring it to market I would go another route. A softer, sweeter, nutty style rich with caramel and oak, something with wheat rather than rye, full of flavor yet easily approachable, at around 80 proof. Something that works well in a snifter yet shines in a cocktail. I wouldn't even bother with trying to make it a legally defined Bourbon, rather I would use a grain mix that gave me the best result. How about 45% corn, 45% wheat and 10% malt. Or even 40% malt and 15% wheat. When I found the right flavor profile I would let it age until fully ready before putting it on the market as something special.

The market is full of high quality value priced Bourbon so I wouldn't even try to compete with that, rather I would offer customers something they couldn't routinely grab off a shelf just about anywhere liquor is sold.

I would agree with the sentiment behind this post: go for something distinctive. If a rye bourbon, make it ~ 40%+ rye - even more than FR. If a wheated bourbon, make it distinctively well aged and aged stated so as to supersede competition with the high value WSRs, OWAs,and Larcenys of the world. There are a lot of high quality, well-priced safe options (i.e. those that most people tend to like) out there already. Go for something unique but still good. (simple task, right?:grin:)

I suppose I gave away my preferences with the above examples; when it comes to rye bourbon, I like it high rye (e.g. FR and OGD), and when it comes to wheat bourbons, I like it to be significantly older than it has to be (e.g. Weller 12). Regarding the question: rye bourbons are generally more reliable, so I usually go for those. But I feel like there are a lot of excellent,nicely priced, and widely available rye bourbons out there already.

[MyOldKyDram]

I also like the idea of offering up something unique. Tough to compete with the big boys with the traditional stuff. Either way, just offer up a good, flavorful product at a fair price and you'll win your fair share of fans here, and elsewhere too I would imagine.

[squire]

I'd like to see a revival of the traditional American style of pure malt whisky.

[Alden]

I'd like to see a revival of the traditional American style of pure malt whisky.

THAT would be interesting.

I seem to gravitate towards rye, or high rye, but some wheaters are very good too. I like the earthiness and in your face flavors of rye.

But for wheaters, I really like Wellers 12, for example.

[WsmataU]

I'm a wheat guy and I understand that what I'd like is not necessarily the most cost effective way to market a new product....but since you asked :

What about a bonded wheat somewhere between 10-15 years? Since bigger distilleries are moving away from age statements and keeping proofs low,, you might just hit a niche. Especially if you could sell it at or below the $50 mark!

[tanstaafl2]

I'd like to see a revival of the traditional American style of pure malt whisky.

What constitutes traditional American style? No peat or other smoke influence?

Seems like I have seen more American malt whiskeys in the last few months than I have ever seen before. Some have been doing it for quite a while. St. George has been making a single malt for some time now, if at something of a premium in cost.

And I presume you mean barley? Anchor/Old Potrero has been doing a single malt rye with several variations for some time now that is supposedly trying to recreate a classic American whiskey style of the past.

[squire]

Actually I was referring to the styles of malt or pure malt whiskys made by American distillers prior to Prohibition but that subject deserves a new thread over on the other American whisky forum.

[petrel800]

Personally, I enjoy both.

I'd be interested in participated in the distillery's journey to a properly aged product, whether it be wheat or rye based. A small release at a year, 2 years, and so on till we get to what you consider to be a properly aged product. Maybe released in a 375ml bottle. I would be interested in tasting the progression to the final product. Barrel proof if possible, but definitely no lower than 100 proof. I steer clear of most of the small barrel craft stuff, I haven't found that I enjoy them, one, and two, while some might, I disagree with the notion it somehow speeds up the aging process in making a traditional bourbon. If traditional bourbon is not your end game, that's cool, but just let me know up front.

I think tasting the progression would be neat, but I'm not sure if it would be realistic with all the labels and fillings with the .gov.

[Alden]

BTW, "you're" is a contraction for "you are". Look at the title of this thread.

Sorry, it just drives me nuts. :skep:

[MyOldKyDram]

Gotta let the grammar slide around here. Most of us is drunk.

[Alden]

Gotta let the grammar slide around here. Most of us is drunk.

:slappin: :grin: :bigeyes:

[Richnimrod]

In my admittedly parochial opinion, the wheaters are great, or near great only after about 7- or 8-years. There are of course exceptions; but most wheaters are too mild (boring) when young. Some are still a little mild even at 12-years (Weller-12). Rye-based bourbons can be quite nice and UNIQUE (that's the key) depending upon aging position in as little as 4- or 5-years. Rye recipes left too long in outside/high rick positions can become too oaky in long aging. I believe wheaters are more forgiving in that regard. Just one man's experience/opinion. Soooooo, to sum up I like 'em both, depending how they're aged, I guess. :cool:

[kyrocklover]

My personal preference would be a rye based bourbon between 94-106 proof. Something like a 57/38/5 mix with a #3 char.

[tigerlam92]

Great wheat bourbon only here.

Thanks

Hugh

[TomH]

I guess I would be firmly in the wheater camp with my bourbon bunker containing 67% wheaters to 33% rye bourbons

[JPBoston]

I like both pretty much equally. Wish there were more reasonably priced, upper-shelf Wheaters available, though (such as KC, OGD 114, FRSmB in the rye camp).

Now that I think of it, I don't know any wheaters in that 25 to 35 dollar price range. But maybe I haven't been looking hard enough.

Edited April 16, 2013 by JPBoston

[fishnbowljoe]

Most of the people that have been around here a while know my preferences. But for all you new folks, I love me some wheaters. :yum: Yes the t-shirt will be worn again at the Sampler.

FWIW, I'm having some Weller 12 as I post this. :grin:

Cheers! Joe

[gblick]

My favorites are wheaters at 107 proof and 7+ years old.

Edited April 17, 2013 by gblick