An Instructive Story

[Flyfish]

Gary, blind tasting was the principle reason I stopped buying expensive whiskys.

[mosugoji64]

Here's a great illustrative clip from Penn & Teller's Bullshit wherein customers at a fine restaurant are served cheap food and wine then asked for their opinions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9J1b3MqiX8

Good stuff.

[Gillman]

I cannot watch this until tonight but look forward to it. But may I ask, did anyone stick to their guns in not being overly impressed? Or did they all praise? Another factor too: sometimes out of politeness people don't want to criticize including "in public". I have often been in a spot when someone brings a dusty to Gazebo and faults are evident but one doesn't want to hurt feelings.

Gary

[squire]

I believe they convinced themselves the food was actually good.

[Gillman]

Okay I watched it. Not my thing, the narration was rather crude and there were surely other factors at play such as people with their date not wanting probably to obtrude an off note. Also, even one drink can put someone's palate off, and had it been me at the table, likely I'd have had two before dinner out.

I never really liked scenarios where people are misled, it's kind of a self-justifying prophecy.

Does it prove something? Certainly, but only up to a point.

Gary

P.S. In my own case, I was entirely responsible for misleading myself!

[GaryT]

Gary, blind tasting was the principle reason I stopped buying expensive whiskys.

After that discovery, I pledged not to buy anything expensive unless I had tried it first. Before ECBP, I hadn't found anything that I enjoyed as much as a GTS or WLW (including PVW20). Of course, after making said pledge, I went to the KBF and bought a 25 yr rye that I hope (but don't expect) will improve with some air. I literally charted out my purchases of bottles over $50 which I had NOT tried before, and found that of the 8 I could recall - I was only really happy with 1 of them (THH). The rest I thought I would enjoy as much as items at half the price in most cases.

Of course, I'm REALLY hoping the 2012 FRSmBLE becomes my second, as I hadn't tried it yet :grin:

[Danger]

Squire makes me feel stupid for repeatedly violating my Nothing Over $30 vow. A blind tasting often reveals that I sometimes prefer the expensive bourbon about 10% more than my regular pours.

If knowing that your bourbon costs a lot (or that you respect the distiller who made it, or like the history behind it, or whatever) makes the bourbon seem better to you, why not pay that premium? I seem to be disagreeing with most posts in the thread, but I like to do whatever I can to get the maximum entertainment out of my bourbon, and if that means paying a bit more for a bottle that's critically acclaimed, then so be it.

I feel like not buying pricier bottles just because you sometimes can't tell the difference in blind tastings is taking a stance on principle that does not make too much sense to me. How often are you really drinking your whiskey blind?

[GaryT]

I feel like not buying pricier bottles just because you sometimes can't tell the difference in blind tastings is taking a stance on principle that does not make too much sense to me. How often are you really drinking your whiskey blind?

Valid point on the definition of value - it differs from one to another. For me, knowing that something is expensive doesn't make me enjoy it more - in fact the opposite tends to be a risk (as I expect it to be that much better). But, my "value" is my enjoyment of the nose and palate of a dram - rather than in knowing it is a premium label. It doesn't make sense to me to pay $30 for a can of Coke that is dressed up if you don't enjoy the contents of said can that much more than the $1 can. On the other hand, if you're paying the premium to collect something rare - I completely understand. I just enjoy drinking too much to collect it :grin:

[HighHorse]

Blind tasting certainly levels the playing field. More and more .. for me anyway .. it leads me to beg the question of whether or not a pricey pour is really a value pour. Unfortunately, by the time I realize what I've bought .. the seller already has my money.

[Yeti]

I'm in agreement that knowledge (of whatever) increasing personal enjoyment is A-ok. I call it the romance factor. It doesn't save everything, but often I enjoy something that was expensive and that I intended to enjoy. If we rode out the value pour hardline nobody would drink anything but HH white, Fitz BIB, EWB, Ritt BIB, etc. etc.

[mosugoji64]

Okay I watched it. Not my thing, the narration was rather crude and there were surely other factors at play such as people with their date not wanting probably to obtrude an off note. Also, even one drink can put someone's palate off, and had it been me at the table, likely I'd have had two before dinner out.

I never really liked scenarios where people are misled, it's kind of a self-justifying prophecy.

Does it prove something? Certainly, but only up to a point.

Gary

P.S. In my own case, I was entirely responsible for misleading myself!

[Gillman]

And I agree with that. There is simple sensory pleasure in handling a well-designed and labeled bottle, I know that. On the food side the equivalent is surroundings, ambiance, service. Of course it can't go too far off the track, e.g. you can't serve a Riesling as a Chardonnay to anyone familiar with those types, or a pilsner as a porter or malt as a bourbon. All I'm saying is, every time you increase the suggestibility factor, one is less likely to appraise accurately what you are eating or drinking. Distraction, including sometimes who your companions are, or having a palate dulled by a drink or two, or mistaking the context because someone has put you on, can make a big difference to accurate assessment. The only way IMO to taste properly with fairness to each product is blind tasting and even then with a relatively fresh palate.

Gary

[Flyfish]

I feel like not buying pricier bottles just because you sometimes can't tell the difference in blind tastings is taking a stance on principle that does not make too much sense to me. How often are you really drinking your whiskey blind?

Two things to clarify: 1) I can tell the difference but that difference often does not justify 3 or 4 times the price IMO; 2) I never drink my bourbon blind but my wife and I taste our bourbon blind quite frequently. She pours me two or three to sample and the next time I do the pouring. We try to minimize the influence of labels, wooden boxes, velvet bags, and cute little horsey stoppers on our assessment of what we are tasting.

[HighHorse]

I'm in agreement that knowledge (of whatever) increasing personal enjoyment is A-ok. I call it the romance factor. It doesn't save everything, but often I enjoy something that was expensive and that I intended to enjoy. If we rode out the value pour hardline nobody would drink anything but HH white, Fitz BIB, EWB, Ritt BIB, etc. etc.

"The romance factor"??? So that means the retailer is going to kiss me before he ...??

[Yeti]

Don't be ridiculous. I mean romance like this...

Edited May 3, 2013 by Yeti

[MyOldKyDram]

Bourbon porn, indeed. Kickstart this baby. I'm in for ten bucks.

[squire]

Romance means he kisses you after.

[Yeti]

Romance means he kisses you after.

Outstanding. This is the most succinct and brutally honest definition imaginable. Now I have to purge it from my mind in the event that a young girl in my family ever asks me what "love" is. "It means he kisses you after" :slappin:

[Wryguy]

Romance means he kisses you after.

:lol:

So on point, as always, Squire.

[black mamba]

My uncle said to me, "I told my wife I loved her the day I married her, and if anything ever changed, I'd let her know."

[boneuphtoner]

And I think more accurately measure the value. When I tried CEHT BP I thought it pretty good. When I blind tasted it against GTS (same price) and Bookers, I was surprised that I liked Bookers more. At 60% of the cost, I won't buy CEHT BP again, despite liking it at first. If I can be more satisfied for less dough, I want to know :-)

I bought my very first bottle of Stagg last year, and I agree wholeheartedly. Booker's blows it out of the water, and it ain't even close, for my palate anyway.

[GaryT]

I bought my very first bottle of Stagg last year, and I agree wholeheartedly. Booker's blows it out of the water, and it ain't even close, for my palate anyway.

I actually meant to convey that I liked Bookers more than Col EH Taylor Barrel Proof (of those three, I still liked GTS the best!). I think if I had compared them knowing which was which - I would have had a bias towards CEHT based on the price. But I think you hit it - what matters is how it hits YOUR palate (at least when you're buying it for yourself!)

[Richnimrod]

Wow, what a lot of interesting and even informational points have been made on this thread. Here's my nickel's worth of useless (and even foolish, maybe) information... If MY OWN enjoyment of a Bourbon can be enhanced by suggestion (& I believe it likely can be), then I want somebody to pour all of my mediocre juice (I have plenty of that) into George T. Stagg & Elijah Craig Barrel Proof bottles for me when my head is turned. Darylld: Can you help with this????

[GaryT]

Wow, what a lot of interesting and even informational points have been made on this thread. Here's my nickel's worth of useless (and even foolish, maybe) information... If MY OWN enjoyment of a Bourbon can be enhanced by suggestion (& I believe it likely can be), then I want somebody to pour all of my mediocre juice (I have plenty of that) into George T. Stagg & Elijah Craig Barrel Proof bottles for me when my head is turned. Darylld: Can you help with this????

[JPBoston]

I'm with the general consensus --- I'm not interested in fancy packaging or perceived value (though I do wish MM was better, cause those bottles are damn cool).

I haven't done any 'official' blind tastings with several bourbons lined up and ready to go. But I usually have about 5-6 bottles open at any one time in the house, and when my wife offers/surprises me with a pour I always 'guess' which one it is. I can usually get it just by the nose, and I haven't been wrong yet when guessing. Again, I only have 5-6 bottles open at a time, so it's not like I'm walking blind into a bourbon bar (or one of our SB brethren with a giant bunker) and doing this... but I think it shows that what I taste when I pour my own is pretty true to reality, and that's all I'm looking for.

I also agree with many that <$30 seems to be my sweet spot. The point of diminishing returns begins to rear its ugly head when I go above that line.