Why is Bourbon getting worse?

[T Comp]

As to age...let's take the 1960's so we are pre glut...how many bourbons (or ryes) as a percentage were sold with more than 8 years of age? I'd think a very small figure compared to today. I mentioned an increase in the starch in corn and I see that for scotch, Oliver Klimek in his blog Dramming, argues the same with regards to more recent barley and the need for wood and longer ageing. More starch equal more alcohol but less proteins, minerals and fats that give flavor. The many factors that create the difference between old and new are of course many and discussed numerous times before. Chuck's write up in The Bourbon Country Reader on the Fairfax County dontated by smokinjoe, which was chemically analyzed is also recommended.

[p_elliott]

In the 60's they didn't chill filter bourbon either leaving those fats in the bourbon unlike today.

[black mamba]

Soil leaching could be another factor. All reports today are that our vegetables and grains have far less nutrient value than they did decades ago because of the intense farming practices used to keep up production.

But I still think age in the barrel is the biggest difference, if there is much difference at all. Lots of great bourbons around today, in all price ranges.

[Quantum]

As a newbie, I notice a lot of posts that allude to the fact that many bourbon brands were better decades ago. Just a few examples that come to mind are:

- OGD bottled by ND is better

- Make sure you get the PVW with the SW juice

- Jim Beam White Label was better in the 70s

What's causing this? Are they changing the formulas? Aging less? Cutting corners in distillation?

One perspective is that certain bourbons will decline in quality as they became more popular, but new quality bourbons will take their place. We have had plenty of time to identify the best bourbons bottled 10 or 20 years ago, but many of those have changed or are no longer available. Demand increases as more people discover it, but there is a finite supply because it has already stopped production. Even if bourbon quality steadily increases over the next 20 years, there will be a handful of bourbons that were widely available today, but will be considered highly desirable because that exact bourbon is no longer available.

Bourbon is a long lead time product, and there are frequent changes in the ownership and operation of the distillers and bottlers. Overall quality may have gone down, but there is still plenty of high quality bourbon widely available. It just might not be the same quality bourbon from the same distillery sold under the same label from decade to decade. An old friend said he may have managed to stay satisfied with the same woman for 60 years, but he would be damned if he wasn't going to pick a new favorite whiskey for every one of those years.

[cowdery]

In the 60's they didn't chill filter bourbon either leaving those fats in the bourbon unlike today.

Who told you that? It's not true. Chill filtering has been almost universally practiced since the repeal of Prohibition.

Most of you aren't old enough to be so nostalgic about the good old days. The only real factual basis for this phenomenon is that many bourbon enthusiasts picked up the hobby during, and in part because of, the bourbon glut that made well-aged bourbon ridiculously affordable. That was a fluke of history and likely won't be repeated. Aside from that, bourbon has never been better than it is today.

Okay, I've said it. You may now resume your ill-informed speculation and analysis.

Edited May 22, 2013 by cowdery

[MyOldKyDram]

Still tastes pretty damned good to me. But then again I don't have the basis for comparison that many of you do.

[squire]

Good then, good now and it will still be good tomorrow.

[Phil T]

In the 3 yrs I've been drinking bourbon, I've had just a few opportunities to partake in dusties. A few were very good, but nothing that blew me away.

In the last couple weeks, I've been drinking mega ml's of OWA SB and FRSB, both new releases. I can't fathom that I'll ever pour anything down my pie hole that would taste any better!!

[SMOWK]

Count me as a fan of current whiskey. Sure, there are some great dusty bourbons. But, the more dusties I try, the less I like them as a whole. Now, as then, there are gems in the bottom to mid shelves.

However; I do think that premium bourbons of yore are more likely to impress than premium bourbons of today. If only because of the sheer amount of them available today.

[GaryT]

I'm more worried about the bourbon of the future. I believe that today's EC12 will taste different from EC12 a decade from now thanks to global warming (assuming nothing else changes, such as where they age the barrels, implementing temp control, etc). I was chatting with someone at Willett/KBD who said that they're seeing evaporation rates in the past few years higher than in years past. Although, this may have more of an impact on the value bourbons aged closer to the top of the rickhouses.

[CoMobourbon]

Most of you aren't old enough to be so nostalgic about the good old days. The only real factual basis for this phenomenon is that many bourbon enthusiasts picked up the hobby during, and in part because of, the bourbon glut that made well-aged bourbon ridiculously affordable. That was a fluke of history and likely won't be repeated. Aside from that, bourbon has never been better than it is today.

Okay, I've said it. You may now resume your ill-informed speculation and analysis.

A (hopefully) clarifying analogy: Many complain that the American middle class lifestyle has slowly deteriorated over the last couple decades or so. Conversely, many boomers and even x-ers complain that gen-y must be uniquely lazy because of all the trouble they seem to be having. Really, though, the fluke economic fat years of the post war and then dot com periods made it especially easy to be middle class - in terms of US history. We mistook these fat years for permanent progress, but now things are cycling down to normal again.

So, new bourbon hobbyists (gen y) are right that our glut year predecessors had it easier.

Also, veteran bourbon hobbyists (boomers) are shortsighted when they read worsening conditions as a special new and unfair dark time.

Both can recognize that, glut (boom) years notwithstanding, things are still pretty good overall.

[P&MLiquorsEric]

I'm more worried about the bourbon of the future. I believe that today's EC12 will taste different from EC12 a decade from now thanks to global warming (assuming nothing else changes, such as where they age the barrels, implementing temp control, etc). I was chatting with someone at Willett/KBD who said that they're seeing evaporation rates in the past few years higher than in years past. Although, this may have more of an impact on the value bourbons aged closer to the top of the rickhouses.

[squire]

Gary if I'm still around a decade from now I won't complain about a shift in the EC flavor profile.

As for evaporation, that's due to weather.

[squire]

"are right that our glut year predecessors had it easier. "

If you kids don't stop making swipes at us glut veterans I'm gonna shake my cane at 'ya and chase ya'll out of the yard.

[MyOldKyDram]

They'll just market it as Global Warming Surviving Bourbon and many of us will gladly pay.

[mosugoji64]

Count me as a fan of current whiskey. Sure, there are some great dusty bourbons. But, the more dusties I try, the less I like them as a whole. Now, as then, there are gems in the bottom to mid shelves.

Yup. What he said. I think we get so caught up in chasing those old bottles that we forget there are some damned good ones sitting on the shelf at the liquor store waiting to be brought home. 10 years from now we'll all be bitching about how good bourbon was in the 20-teens and bragging about the number of bottles of Knob Creek we managed to squirrel away, "because it was better back then."

[squire]

We'll probably be slugging down 10 year old Rye/Bourbon hybrids by then.

[DeanSheen]

The dusty chase is not much fun unless you get lucky. I like my bunker, I wish there was more in there, but it is what it is. There is a lot fo good stuff out there now and much of it is current production.

But as for the original topic, I nominate Wild Turkey for the getting worse prize. Such a shame too.

[cowdery]

Pick up a bottle of WT101 next chance you get. Make it a 375 if you're skeptical. I think you may be pleasantly surprised. I was. (And in case anyone is wondering, it's a bottle I bought.)

[Josh]

They'll just market it as Global Warming Surviving Bourbon and many of us will gladly pay.

[Josh]

Pick up a bottle of WT101 next chance you get. Make it a 375 if you're skeptical. I think you may be pleasantly surprised. I was. (And in case anyone is wondering, it's a bottle I bought.)

[DeanSheen]

Pick up a bottle of WT101 next chance you get. Make it a 375 if you're skeptical. I think you may be pleasantly surprised. I was. (And in case anyone is wondering, it's a bottle I bought.)

[GaryT]

Pick up a bottle of WT101 next chance you get. Make it a 375 if you're skeptical. I think you may be pleasantly surprised. I was. (And in case anyone is wondering, it's a bottle I bought.)

I think this is where my lack of historical insight/taste helps me out. I've only tasted what WT "was" at special gatherings, where everything always tastes better in large part due to the company. So when I try WT101, I'm not comparing it to some recollection of what it might have been. After seeing the thrashing it typically (not always) receives here, I was skeptical - and pleasantly surprised to find in a blind tasting that I liked it quite well.

[squire]

Blind tasting rounds off a lot of square pegs and I'm glad to hear the current WT 101 is still showing well.

[MissingKY]

Pick up a bottle of WT101 next chance you get. Make it a 375 if you're skeptical. I think you may be pleasantly surprised. I was. (And in case anyone is wondering, it's a bottle I bought.)

As he tends to do, Chuck makes a great point here. I've got tons of dusties and premium bottles, but I find that current make WT101 is among those that I reach for most often. It's great neat and makes wonderful cocktails. And while I've had some bottles from the 70s/80s/early 90s that were terrific, the ones I've bought in the last year or so are just as good.

In a more general sense, dusties make for a fun scavenger hunt, and if you get lucky, you can score some very good whiskey relatively inexpensively. But just looking at the open dusties on my bar right now, there are quite a few where I wish I'd have been just as happy buying and drinking current bottles of Weller 12, OWA, Rittenhouse BIB, WT101, BT, etc. For every dusty bottle that's wowed me, there's been one that was disappointing or (more frequently) forgettable.