What accounts for bourbons of same proof having such big differences in heat/burn?

[BB Slim]

I had a 4R1B last night that was rich, spicy, sweet and smooth with minimal heat and burn at 50% abv. Tonight I am having an OFBB which has nice spice and richness but considerably more heat and burn than the 4R1B at 49% abv. I just assumed the alcohol content had the largest influence on the heat and burn. This tasting suggests I am mistaken and am curious what factors besides alcohol content contribute to the expression of heat and burn in bourbon?

[Bmac]

My understanding is that it starts with how good or bad the new make is. If it was poorly distilled it will have quite a bit of bite/burn. Also, age plays a role. The younger the whiskey the more bite as well. FR ages their SB at 9 years while OFBB is 4 years. Also, I have heard a few times that OFBB is quite harsh. I can't find it here in Texas, so I haven't been able to test that theory.

[Jwilly019]

My understanding is that it starts with how good or bad the new make is. If it was poorly distilled it will have quite a bit of bite/burn. Also, age plays a role. The younger the whiskey the more bite as well. FR ages their SB at 9 years while OFBB is 4 years. Also, I have heard a few times that OFBB is quite harsh. I can't find it here in Texas, so I haven't been able to test that theory.

OFBB is 4 years old? I don't have a bottle of the 2012 release, but my bottles of the 2010 and 2011 are both 12 years old.

[smknjoe]

OFBB = Old Forester Birthday Bourbon ~96 proof about 10-13yr.

OFBIB = Old Forester Bottled in Bond which is now Signature 100 proof or either Old Fitzgerald Bottled in Bond 100 proof both are 4yr. if I'm not mistaken.

Edited June 4, 2013 by smknjoe

[Bmac]

OFBB = Old Forester Birthday Bourbon ~96 proof about 10-13yr.

OFBIB = Old Forester Bottled in Bond which is now Signature 100 proof or either Old Fitzgerald Bottled in Bond 100 proof both are 4yr. if I'm not mistaken.

Aw snap. I got confused between OFBB and OFBIB. So.....disregard my comparison.

Therefore I will say if it still burns at that age (12 - 15) it's probably not quality distillation -__-

[Bmac]

OFBB is 4 years old? I don't have a bottle of the 2012 release, but my bottles of the 2010 and 2011 are both 12 years old.

Yeah, looks like I goofed up with the acronyms.

[GaryT]

Just to hazard a guess (not sure if anyone has any ideas of how to test this theory amongst all of the other variables!), but would entry proof make a difference? I would think that something going in at 125 proof versus 110 proof would pick up "more" in the same period of time (although that may not have squat to do with burn). I've always had the same basic assumption. In fact, when blind tasting to guess what something is, I'll compare it to some BIB just to see how it feels in comparison.

[Brisko]

There's a lot more to "burn" than alcohol. Wood tannins, for instance.

[tanstaafl2]

There's a lot more to "burn" than alcohol. Wood tannins, for instance.

Not to mention your own palate from night to night and what else you may have consumed recently!

[sailor22]

A lot of the sensation of "burn" comes from the amount of heads and tails present. Not sure that the alcohol itself has a lot of "burn" taste. I have tasted white dog fresh from the still that had no burn at all.

[Balcones Winston]

I asked Chip for an answer. It was way over my head and he was using words I can't even spell. But the gist is that burn/heat is caused by solvents in your distillate that are a specific group of non-ethanol alcohols. They are always present in whiskey, but the size and shape of your still and speed of your distillation will produce them in different concentrations.

[black mamba]

I always thought ER to be extremely hot for a 90 proofer (BT mashbill #1).

ETL at the same 90 proof is never hot (BT mashbill #2).

[Balcones Winston]

I always thought ER to be extremely hot for a 90 proofer (BT mashbill #1).

ETL at the same 90 proof is never hot (BT mashbill #2).

Forgot to mention, style of fermentation will also affect concentrations of compounds that lead to burn.

[squire]

My Father's generation would refer to a lack of burn as 'smooth', not very technical but those guys knew their Bourbon.

[weller_tex]

I agree that what you had to eat, or did not eat, time of day..etc can change the sensation as well. I can have the same bourbon and at different times get varying amounts of burn. Frankly, I like some burn.

[Brisko]

I asked Chip for an answer. It was way over my head and he was using words I can't even spell. But the gist is that burn/heat is caused by solvents in your distillate that are a specific group of non-ethanol alcohols. They are always present in whiskey, but the size and shape of your still and speed of your distillation will produce them in different concentrations.

This makes a lot of sense. I believe that these compounds must be pretty volatile, too, as the effect often dissipates with sufficient airtime.

[Flyfish]

My Father's generation would refer to a lack of burn as 'smooth', not very technical but those guys knew their Bourbon.

About 40 years ago, I used to go to the family farm on weekends to help my wife's father and uncle clear some brush. After a couple hours we would adjourn to the root cellar where there was a big barrel of apple jack. We'd toss some back and the old guys would says, "Wow, that smoooooth!" By which they meant, "Ok, so it tastes like lighter fluid and the fumes have removed all of our nose hairs but it beats clearing brush." These gentlemen also drank boiler makers and they always came out with that same "Wow, that's smoooooth!" In those days, a kid from the city didn't argue with real men.

[sailor22]

That generations fixation on smooth is what led to the popularity of blended canadian whiskeys. Todays generations fixation on smooth is what led to the popularity of Vodka.

[smknjoe]

About 40 years ago, I used to go to the family farm on weekends to help my wife's father and uncle clear some brush. After a couple hours we would adjourn to the root cellar where there was a big barrel of apple jack. We'd toss some back and the old guys would says, "Wow, that smoooooth!" By which they meant, "Ok, so it tastes like lighter fluid and the fumes have removed all of our nose hairs but it beats clearing brush." These gentlemen also drank boiler makers and they always came out with that same "Wow, that's smoooooth!" In those days, a kid from the city didn't argue with real men.

To admit burn would be to admit you were a pussy. Can we say that here?

[squire]

I don't mind, ask the pussies.

[mbroo5880i]

To admit burn would be to admit you were a pussy. Can we say that here?

"that." There I said it!

[black mamba]

Hey, it's not iced tea. If it didn't have some burn, what would be the point. Admitting it burns doesn't make you a pussy . . .

not drinking it because it burns makes you a pussy.

It's kinda like hot sauce. Everyone has their level of burn that they like.

[Balcones Winston]

To admit burn would be to admit you were a pussy. Can we say that here?

I don't mind, ask the pussies.

[jburlowski]

That generations fixation on smooth is what led to the popularity of blended canadian whiskeys. Todays generations fixation on smooth is what led to the popularity of Vodka.

And both generations were just trying to get laid. :cool:

[Brisko]

About 40 years ago, I used to go to the family farm on weekends to help my wife's father and uncle clear some brush. After a couple hours we would adjourn to the root cellar where there was a big barrel of apple jack. We'd toss some back and the old guys would says, "Wow, that smoooooth!" By which they meant, "Ok, so it tastes like lighter fluid and the fumes have removed all of our nose hairs but it beats clearing brush." These gentlemen also drank boiler makers and they always came out with that same "Wow, that's smoooooth!" In those days, a kid from the city didn't argue with real men.

Be sure and ask for Guzzler's Gin. A nice, smooth drink.