The real Golden Age is coming

[Bourbon Boiler]

At last we have the answer to the question of what makes some bourbon hot and others not. It's a matter of scale. Micros also do things more efficiently and they chill filter. What a revelation!

Small Barrels and Chill Filtering - The Golden Age starts today!!!!!!

[mosugoji64]

And why do they emphasize that their rye whiskey was made with durum wheat? And why did they have to go to Las Vegas to make it? Durum wheat rye made by an AZ distillery in NV. WTF?!?!

[squire]

I'm surprised they overlooked that other native grain corn, which I believe has been grown locally for quite a spell.

[BigBoldBully]

Thanks for the lead, Portwood. :skep: Isn't it funny how nowadays people are increasing using "local" as an indicator of quality (not just environmental friendliness), when they used to demand "imported" stuff and looked down on anything made too close to home? The swelling predominance of any proxy-based thinking will definitely interfere to some extent with the realization of my dream, but how much, I am not sure. Wish I could believe that crap doesn't stink so long as it's locally defecated!

[Trey Manthey]

Many if not most here would agree the the SW of per 72 was and forever will be some of if not the best bourbon ever bottled.

I'm curious what you're basing this statement on.

[squire]

I took it as a reference to when the Van Winkle family still owned and operated the Stitzel-Weller distillery.

[WAINWRIGHT]

I think that most consider the glut era products of the past to be some of the greatest whiskies ever created.I agree and disagree,though they are rather good in many ways,viscous,much older than the age statements they carried,great profiles,times have changed.I think that many of our often regarded dusties aren't necessarily so much better that their modern co-parts as different.I mean don't get me wrong I love dusty bourbon,but I see no issues on the horizon other than the retraction of a few age statements and certain shortages.I personally love the direction many distilleries are going with new innovative products and expansion of product lines today.I also think twenty or thirty years from now many will be having this very same discussion about our whiskies of today,because it will most certainly be different then as it is now.

[squire]

I should plan so far, think I'll just drink what I can find now.

[BigBoldBully]

Wainwright, you mention that much of the glut era whiskey was viscous. Although I have not had anything bottled in those days (that I remember anyway), I often wonder what accounted for this thickness, this richness that so many reference. Lower barrel entry proof? Something about the grain itself? Something that might return in the "new golden age" to come?

[GaryT]

I'm optimistic that there are better days ahead. While the shortages will drive up prices, the increase demand will drive more resources into making more products to get a piece of that growing marketshare. That might mean paying more in the future for the same products, but I think it will mean a greater variety of products to choose from. And a revolving door of products to some extent - new ones will come out, and if they don't pick up an audience, they'll go away and make room for something else.

I also think we're seeing more experimentation & science going into the production process. BT's end-goal may not be a bourbon that everyone likes, but if they can better understand what inputs generate which outputs - they'll be in a position to put out a variety of products that many people like. When I first sipped GTS, I couldn't imagine a bourbon I would enjoy more. Then I tried some PHC releases, ECBP, etc. I don't know that every year there will be something that I like better, but I'm optimistic that there will be more offerings that I'll like a helluva lot.

[tmckenzie]

Wainwright, you mention that much of the glut era whiskey was viscous. Although I have not had anything bottled in those days (that I remember anyway), I often wonder what accounted for this thickness, this richness that so many reference. Lower barrel entry proof? Something about the grain itself? Something that might return in the "new golden age" to come?

[BigBoldBully]

Low still proof, I watch the thickness of it everyday coming off the still. The big boys I doubt ill ever make it like that again.

Thank you. Yes, still proof was actually what I was imagining when typing barrel entry like a doofus. Makes me think of some of those small-scale mescal and tequila operations distilling to 110 and ending up with a thick, pungent spirit. Apparently that works for grain too.

[zillah]

Mind if I step into the conversation?

Forget the controversial craft distillers for a second and look towards what is out right now.

There is one product out right now that comes to mind that fits most of your specifications. I think it has flew under the radar due to price, some bias against the distillery for its current product offerings and some terrible marketing. That, or maybe some don’t find its tastes align with theirs. But here are its stats:

· This bourbon is made from sourced non-GMO corn from what I assume, a limited collection of farmers. (Has to be sourced as it would need to be contracted. Non-GMO corn can’t be purchased on the open market I believe)

· This bourbon is considered to be picked by bourbon legends from some of the best barrels aged in the optimal range of 8 - 9 years old.

· This bourbon is a single barrel.

· This bourbon is un-chill filtered.

· This bourbon is bottled at barrel strength.

Unfortunately, this bourbon costs about $60, has a laughable name and, from what I have found, limited distribution.

Still don’t know the bourbon? It is called the Russell’s Reserve Small Batch Single Barrel. (oh god, why)

Is $60 a price that is too much to pay? Maybe. When I open my bottle, I’ll make sure to let you know. :cool:

There is only one other distillery that has some similar practices and products and that would be Four Roses.

The point is: the big players are noticing and they are bringing it. The perfect bourbon is already here!

[squire]

They didn't get big by playing catch up.

[tmckenzie]

Mind if I step into the conversation?

Forget the controversial craft distillers for a second and look towards what is out right now.

There is one product out right now that comes to mind that fits most of your specifications. I think it has flew under the radar due to price, some bias against the distillery for its current product offerings and some terrible marketing. That, or maybe some don’t find its tastes align with theirs. But here are its stats:

· This bourbon is made from sourced non-GMO corn from what I assume, a limited collection of farmers. (Has to be sourced as it would need to be contracted. Non-GMO corn can’t be purchased on the open market I believe)

· This bourbon is considered to be picked by bourbon legends from some of the best barrels aged in the optimal range of 8 - 9 years old.

· This bourbon is a single barrel.

· This bourbon is un-chill filtered.

· This bourbon is bottled at barrel strength.

Unfortunately, this bourbon costs about $60, has a laughable name and, from what I have found, limited distribution.

Still don’t know the bourbon? It is called the Russell’s Reserve Small Batch Single Barrel. (oh god, why)

Is $60 a price that is too much to pay? Maybe. When I open my bottle, I’ll make sure to let you know. :cool:

There is only one other distillery that has some similar practices and products and that would be Four Roses.

The point is: the big players are noticing and they are bringing it. The perfect bourbon is already here!

it is good stuff, but you had wild turkey before they upped the proof of everything?

[zillah]

Wild Turkey 101 is one of my daily drinker and all time favorite. Everything else...not so much. I did like Rare Breed, but for the price I would rather stick with the 101. Russel's Reserve was missing something, but I think its faults have been fixed with the new release. (at least on paper)

[BigBoldBully]

Interesting - I never knew Wild Turkey uses non GMO corn. I had read an article that said 4R and BT were the only two major distilleries to insist on non GMO, and now I am reading an article that says it's only 4R and WT.

[squire]

Would be rather difficult to prove.

[Bmac]

The distilleries aren't insisting on using non-GMO corn because of 'quality'. They are insisting on it so they can continue to export their bourbon to Europe and Japan. The day regular corn is no longer available (which is fast approaching) is the day they can no longer export and MIGHT have to shut down. I was very surprised to learn that 90% of 4R's profits come from export sales.

I think the Golden Age is now and will end when GMO finally has the monopoly.

[BigBoldBully]

When/if labeling becomes more informative, it may stop being primarily an export issue. But I sure hope you are wrong about non GMO corn soon being unavailable. Some things I've read seem to give reason for hope. Check out this article (though nearly two years old at this point): http://www.non-gmoreport.com/articles/july2011/organicreadycorntopreventGMOcontamination.php

[sutton]

The distilleries aren't insisting on using non-GMO corn because of 'quality'. They are insisting on it so they can continue to export their bourbon to Europe and Japan. The day regular corn is no longer available (which is fast approaching) is the day they can no longer export and MIGHT have to shut down. I was very surprised to learn that 90% of 4R's profits come from export sales.

I think the Golden Age is now and will end when GMO finally has the monopoly.

Does this mean WT8 and WT12 comes back home ?? :bigeyes:

[squire]

I believe the real issue with GMO corn is the lack of consumer acceptance.

[Bmac]

Does this mean WT8 and WT12 comes back home ?? :bigeyes:

Maybe. Who knows what will happen when the bottom drops out.

[Bmac]

When/if labeling becomes more informative, it may stop being primarily an export issue. But I sure hope you are wrong about non GMO corn soon being unavailable. Some things I've read seem to give reason for hope. Check out this article (though nearly two years old at this point): http://www.non-gmoreport.com/articles/july2011/organicreadycorntopreventGMOcontamination.php

Read up on interviews with Master Distiller Jim Rutledge. He talks about the shortage and how it will soon not be available. The long and short of it is that GMO corn will quickly cross pollinate with standard corn. When that happens Monsanto will suddenly charge you will having to pay royalties on the use of GMO corn. The GMO corn is engineered to die and become inert after the first season. So, in that manner, all regular corn is being 'killed off' so-to-speak and replaced with GMO. I figure in 5 years there may not be such a thing as non-GMO corn.

[squire]

Yes, Mr. Rutledge is also on record as saying there is no difference in the quality of the whisky produced by GMO or non-GMO corn varieties.

When it comes to Bourbon and GMO corn the issue for some in Europe and elsewhere is political and used to further their real agenda which is bashing America.