Paying for a Recipe

[Dolph Lundgren]

There is a whiskey floating around right now that really bothers me. The George Washington Unaged Rye, at around $70 for a 375ml, is being marketed as a whiskey based on its "special recipe." Their schtict is that the whiskey is a limited batch white rye distilled from George "One Buck" Washington's own recipe and fermentation techniques.

I understand that products want to differentiate themselves, and I get that. But given the cost here, I think the GW Rye is going beyond the point of merely separating itself from other products. I feel like they are trying to dupe new whiskey drinkers into buying their product by attaching an interesting back story coupled with a "special recipe" tag line. Doesn't every whiskey have it's own special recipe, i.e. mashbill? I know it's not GW's recipe, but does that really matter. Does the fact that it was GW's recipe merit the price-jump?

I also understand the principal of caveat emptor. But to me, it still doesn't detract from the fact that they are trying to burn unassuming consumers. To me, the selling of the special recipe AT THIS PRICE is just another predatory practice.

How you you guys/gals feel about selling a "special recipe" at a mark-up?

FYI, I tried this at a tasting and thought it was bad, even for an unaged product.

[Flyfish]

I am under the impression that the recreated distillery at Mt. Vernon is mostly a "historic re-enactment" with tours and demonstrations. The 60% rye, 35% corn, 5% barley recipe was originally produced at the urging of a Scotsman on GW's plantation. It became highly profitable. Was not aware that it is now commercially available. Last I heard, it was in limited production and sold only at Mt. Vernon more as a historic curiosity more than a commerical enterprise. Like all "craft" distilleries, the economy of scale is just not there.

Or, by chance, is there a commercially produced product not related to Mt. Vernon that I was not aware of?

[Dolph Lundgren]

Its hit the market now. Here is the Binny's link:

http://www.binnys.com/spirits/George_Washington_Rye_54962.html

[Flyfish]

Looks like the same bottle they sell at Mt. Vernon. Unaged rye could be a little rough even if the price were not. Imagine the customer who assumes that, for that price, it must be good.

[squire]

I can't tell from the website, was this whisky made at Mt. Vernon or by someone using George's well publicized recipe.

[Flyfish]

Looks like the same bottle they sell at Mt. Vernon.

[mark fleetwood]

There is a whiskey floating around right now that really bothers me. The George Washington Unaged Rye, at around $70 for a 375ml, is being marketed as a whiskey based on its "special recipe." Their schtict is that the whiskey is a limited batch white rye distilled from George "One Buck" Washington's own recipe and fermentation techniques.

I understand that products want to differentiate themselves, and I get that. But given the cost here, I think the GW Rye is going beyond the point of merely separating itself from other products. I feel like they are trying to dupe new whiskey drinkers into buying their product by attaching an interesting back story coupled with a "special recipe" tag line. Doesn't every whiskey have it's own special recipe, i.e. mashbill? I know it's not GW's recipe, but does that really matter. Does the fact that it was GW's recipe merit the price-jump?

I also understand the principal of caveat emptor. But to me, it still doesn't detract from the fact that they are trying to burn unassuming consumers. To me, the selling of the special recipe AT THIS PRICE is just another predatory practice.

How you you guys/gals feel about selling a "special recipe" at a mark-up?

FYI, I tried this at a tasting and thought it was bad, even for an unaged product.

[Richnimrod]

Another status symbol for those who need status symbols on their back credenza. Maybe if more or these come out they'll leave FR alone.

[squire]

And here I was thinking status cost more than $70.00.

[mbroo5880i]

The President William H. Harrison Bourbon is $115 for 750 ml. Of course, President Washington was the father of our country, so a 20+% premium per 750 ml ($140 v. $115) seems warranted.

I am not sure that I would call the recipe "special." Just curious, are there other rye whiskies available with 65% rye content?

[squire]

Used to be, now it seems mashbills are below 60 or well above.

[VAGentleman]

I can't tell from the website, was this whisky made at Mt. Vernon or by someone using George's well publicized recipe.

Looks like its made at the Hillrock Distillery in New York, with a portion made at Mt Vernon. Looks like Mt Vernon may be partnering with these guys? http://www.drinkupny.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=george+washington&Submit.x=0&Submit.y=0

[P&MLiquorsEric]

The entire booze industry is based on smoke, mirrors and inflated brand images.

Nearly every company out there uses some form of creative back story for their products.

Bourbon and whiskey is not excluded either. Makers mark brands itself as a small family run company out in little old loretto. Hand dipped the old fashioned way. The hand dipping is true but little else is done the old fashioned way.

Not to mention that all distilleries use the same recipe for numerous "distinct" product lines.

Big beer companies are the masters of this practice. Offer nearly identical products with different brand names at different price points to different segments of the market.

[Flyfish]

Looks like its made at the Hillrock Distillery in New York, with a portion made at Mt Vernon. Looks like Mt Vernon may be partnering with these guys? http://www.drinkupny.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=george+washington&Submit.x=0&Submit.y=0

Good catch. I hope the historical society share of the proceeds justifies whatever itty-bitty of authenticity they add to the partnership.

[cowdery]

Taken from the "Drink Up NY" site linked above, this is Hillrock's description of the product.

"Located in the heart of the historic Hudson Valley, Hillrock Estate Distillery is proud to be one of the few 'field-to-glass' whiskey producers in the world, as well as the first U.S. distillery since before Prohibition to floor malt and handcraft whiskey on site from estate-grown grain. Led by owner Jeffrey Baker and renowned Master Distiller Dave Pickerell, Hillrock's commitment to quality embodies the rich history of craft distilling in the Hudson Valley.

"George Washington was not only the successful commanding general of the American Revolution and the first President of the United States, he was also responsible for creating one of the largest whiskey-making operations in 18th century America. Based on Washington's original whiskey recipe, Hillrock's George Washington Rye is an unaged spirit brimming with notes of fresh grain, peppery spice and a touch of dried herbs. Each bottle contains a portion of whiskey made on Washington's stills in the newly reconstructed distillery on the museum grounds in Mount Vernon, Virginia."

The connection here is Dave Pickerell, former master distiller at Maker's Mark. Many master distillers have participated in distilling events at Mount Vernon (as have I) but Dave has been the most active, returning year after year. Tom McKenzie, a participant here, has also participated in those events. The restored distillery at Mount Vernon runs water most of the time, but occasionally they bring in people like Dave and Tom to distill spirits in the restored distillery, which is set up as nearly as they can determine exactly like Washington had it. Everything they do is as historically accurate as possible. They even wear 18th century-style clothes.

The recipe, i.e., mash bill, is based on the volumes of grain sent from the estate's mill to the distillery in 1797, according to estate records. This is a serious historical project that has been going on for nearly 20 years. It has largely been funded by the beverage alcohol industry but the project has been under the control of the scholars at Mount Vernon.

What I assume is that, wanting a product to sell in the gift shop at Mount Vernon but not being able to generate enough volume from the replica distillery, Dave and the Mount Vernon folks came up with this idea. Dave will make the same recipe on the equipment at Hillrock and mix in a little of the spirit made on the replica distillery at Mount Vernon, thereby giving both Mount Vernon and Hillrock something to sell.

Because of all that background, you can't really compare this to any other product. It's one of a kind. Yes, it's a novelty, but it's also a pretty good recreation of what Washington's distillery made, as nearly as we know. If you like that sort of thing, this is the sort of thing you will like.

[suntour]

The entire booze industry is based on smoke, mirrors and inflated brand images.

Nearly every company out there uses some form of creative back story for their products.

Bourbon and whiskey is not excluded either. Makers mark brands itself as a small family run company out in little old loretto. Hand dipped the old fashioned way. The hand dipping is true but little else is done the old fashioned way.

Not to mention that all distilleries use the same recipe for numerous "distinct" product lines.

Big beer companies are the masters of this practice. Offer nearly identical products with different brand names at different price points to different segments of the market.

I remember seeing this originally when I was like 10 and honestly not a week has gone by that I have not thought about it

[Dolph Lundgren]

Good info, Chuck. I guess the next question is whether the method and tradition merit the price, which is purely subjective. From my perspective, I see a 375ml unaged rye for $65 at my local store and I can't help but think its a marketing ploy to sell something at an insanely inflated price.

[TheNovaMan]

As Chuck pointed out, it's not so much the recipe, it's the fact that at least some of it is made at the reconstructed Mt Vernon distillery the old-fashioned way: backbreaking manual labor.

Seeing is believing:

[bllygthrd]

Chuck's info certainly helped put this product, and its back story, in prospective ... I wouldn't pay the price, but I can see the novelty value.

[mark fleetwood]

Taken from the "Drink Up NY" site linked above, this is Hillrock's description of the product.

"Located in the heart of the historic Hudson Valley, Hillrock Estate Distillery is proud to be one of the few 'field-to-glass' whiskey producers in the world, as well as the first U.S. distillery since before Prohibition to floor malt and handcraft whiskey on site from estate-grown grain. Led by owner Jeffrey Baker and renowned Master Distiller Dave Pickerell, Hillrock's commitment to quality embodies the rich history of craft distilling in the Hudson Valley.

"George Washington was not only the successful commanding general of the American Revolution and the first President of the United States, he was also responsible for creating one of the largest whiskey-making operations in 18th century America. Based on Washington's original whiskey recipe, Hillrock's George Washington Rye is an unaged spirit brimming with notes of fresh grain, peppery spice and a touch of dried herbs. Each bottle contains a portion of whiskey made on Washington's stills in the newly reconstructed distillery on the museum grounds in Mount Vernon, Virginia.

Good info, thanks Chuck. I love a good historical link. With it being the 150th anniversary of Gettyburg I can't believe someone hasn't partnered with Terressentia to make General Lee "Uh oh" Unaged White Dog.

dumb question: was the rye washington produced unaged? If not, dumb question 2: are they barreling to produce an aged version?

Edited July 3, 2013 by mark fleetwood

[Dolph Lundgren]

As Chuck pointed out, it's not so much the recipe, it's the fact that at least some of it is made at the reconstructed Mt Vernon distillery the old-fashioned way: backbreaking manual labor.

Seeing is believing:

[squire]

Oh, I get it, a cupful of George's whisky tossed into a barrel of mine means I can put it in small bottles that sell for big prices.

[brettckeen]

When Dave was in town in April he dropped off a bunch of bottles as a gift, I guess we should try it out? I prefer my rye to see some oak but this wasn't always the case back then.

[WAINWRIGHT]

I can appreciate the historical aspect,this product it may not suit my tastes but at least it is a genuine effort derived from the true roots of the spirit and distillery.

[P&MLiquorsEric]

I remember seeing this originally when I was like 10 and honestly not a week has gone by that I have not thought about it

That is my favorite Simpsons episode. Homer goes to the duff factory, places his head under a tap from a number of different labeled taps from the same tank and says "ooohh there really is a difference".