What accounts for the licorice taste in some bourbons?

[kcgumbohead]

On the" what are you drinking today" thread a mention was made of licorice as one of the flavors detected in that days pour. I happened to be in the midst of exploring WT 101 and RB, when I read that it got me wondering which brands this is most prominent in and what might be the source of it. I replied about my WT impressions but it occurred to me that this might be better served in its own thread.

Here is the text copied from the other thread:Opened my first bottle of EW1783. My newbie palate tastes licorice?

First time I detected licorice was FRSB, I had to have pours on different nights to confirm what I thought I was tasting, but that was it and I like that about the SB. I have recently (today) A/B'd WT101 and WT RB for the second time, both of which I really like as they are different but similar, one of the common denominators is that licorice taste. To be clear I am talking black licorice which I loved as a kid so its really cool how certain bourbons are bringing back childhood memories, who woulda thought? The licorice I get in WT is more prominent than the hint I get in FR so I would say yes that's what you are tasting.

My question now is why? Is this the yeast? Does WT use a yeast that gives off a licorice taste and is FR using something similar in one of their 10 recipes that results in a similar flavor? I have only tasted what you describe in the three I mentioned and not in anything else, I am nowhere close to having an encyclopedic tasting history but its broad enough that I wonder about the yeast.

[Brisko]

I get it quite a bit in some of the better Beam products, too. Also in single malt scotches, on occasion.

[Zeke]

Howdy!

It comes from the chemical compound anethole and my best guess would be that it develops as a cause of the aging process. It is also quite prevalent in a number of Canadian whiskeys. If there are any chemists hanging out here they can do a far better job at explaining stuff than I can.

[squire]

Good first post Zeke, drop by our new to straightbourbon forum and introduce yourself.

[Richnimrod]

Good first post Zeke, drop by our new to straightbourbon forum and introduce yourself.

I'll second that for sure! What the heck is "anethole"? Is that a chemical name, or some other descriptive term.

I've not heard of it. That is indeed a very nice first post. Have at it and let's all have some more fun!

[Lazer]

I'm with Zeke, I think its a wood thing. I find it in bourbons with older age and heavier char.

[TheNovaMan]

I'll second that for sure! What the heck is "anethole"? Is that a chemical name, or some other descriptive term.

I've not heard of it. That is indeed a very nice first post. Have at it and let's all have some more fun!

Yes, anethole is the chemical name.

And +1 on good first post!

[squire]

I still think it's the gnomes.

[Zeke]

Howdy!

Thanks to all for the props. But I gotta give it up to Wikipedia, it makes me sound far better than I really am. Beyond that, if anyone is wondering I'm stuck in the bourbon/Canadian whisky hell called Quebec. Where we can get about 42 sku's of American whiskey and around 40 of Canadian.

Personally, I'd agree with squire and blame the licorice taste on the gnomes. But then again I've been drinking since 4...

If anybody is interested in the variety of chemical reactions that happen when making bourbon I can supply some links. But as I said, I'm not a chemist, so it might not some out as clear as you like.

[p_elliott]

Howdy!

It comes from the chemical compound anethole and my best guess would be that it develops as a cause of the aging process. It is also quite prevalent in a number of Canadian whiskeys. If there are any chemists hanging out here they can do a far better job at explaining stuff than I can.

[Lazer]

I'm with Zeke, I think its a wood thing. I find it in bourbons with older age and heavier char.

I should add that this is a taste I like a lot.

[zillah]

From my experience, whiskies that use rye in the mash bill is the culprit. When rye is young, aside from the spicy or floral flavors, you are most likely to get mint, spearmint, sarsaparilla, anise and licorice flavors. It is a bit less pronounced in low rye bourbons, but I find it shows up sometimes with old, woody ones where the bitter characteristics of the barrel char with a bit of the rye can create licorice too. It is also why you can get licorice in Canadian whiskies, as rye is a very prevalent grain in many Canadian whiskies.

[ratcheer]

Hmmm. I have never noticed a licorice taste in any bourbon on its own.

Tim

[tmckenzie]

Rye and longer fermentation

[ratcheer]

Rye and longer fermentation

Then I probably just identify that as "good bourbon flavor". I don't care for the bland wheaters.

Tim

[Special Reserve]

Wouldn't Anethole be the trivial name and (E)-1-Methoxy-4-(1-propenyl)benzene be the chemical name.

For the record it has been 40+ years that I thought seriously about organic chemistry nomenclature. The nomenclature style I learned and prefer would call it para-mMethoxyphenylpropene.

Thanks for the trip down memory lane.

A fabulous 1st post. A big welcome to SB.

Will

[TheNovaMan]

Well, as far as I can tell, (E)-1-Methoxy-4-(1-propenyl)benzene is the IUPAC name, para-mMethoxyphenylpropene might be called the systematic name, and anethole would be called the "trivial" name. I hate the term "trivial" and greatly prefer "common;" when was the last time you looked around the lab for a squirt bottle of propanone or propan-2-ol? The IUPAC system of naming chemicals is great because it's uniform, but I think it's useful to keep in mind that it was invented to make things easily understood by many, not to imprison us with its rules. Acetone, isopropyl alcohol, toluene, anethole, and a host of others are already understood by darn near every Western chemist, so it's not necessary to replace those common names with IUPAC nomenclature (IMHO).