Willett Family Estate distribution?

[NWBourbonDrinker]

I have had the pleasure of purchasing 2 - 10 Year, 2 - 6 Year, and 1 - 4 Year Rye recently. The 4 Year Rye is everywhere right now but the 10 and 6 are a harder to find. Does anybody understand the distribution of this stuff? It seems nearly random and their barrel selection and release doesn't have a lot of order to it either. No complaints as it is good Bourbon but I am curious.

[squire]

I'd say the 10 year is pretty widely available . . . if you buy it under the Henry McKenna label.

[MauiSon]

Last year we had the Willett Rye 5yo and now the Willett Rye 4yo. Haven't seen anything else out here.

[GaryT]

Around Atlanta, I pretty much only see the 4 yr rye (have seen a 5 yr a couple times), and I rarely see their bourbon.

[NWBourbonDrinker]

I'd say the 10 year is pretty widely available . . . if you buy it under the Henry McKenna label.

[squire]

Of course I'm saying they're sourced the same. Willet's use of HH whisky has been an open secret for as long as I can remember and my memory (when it works) goes back pretty far. If I'm wrong let Willet fess up where they got it, they sure as Hell didn't make it.

[P&MLiquorsEric]

Normally, a retailer or distributor must do a barrel selection to get the single barrel willett estate bourbon. Most often it is a retailer.

Turn around time with willett is very slow. We are going on 8 months waiting on our 10 and 6 year selections.

I spoke with the master distiller and he said a small bottling line is being built for the single barrel willett lines. Not sure when it goes online but it should help turn times.

[NWBourbonDrinker]

Of course I'm saying they're sourced the same. Willet's use of HH whisky has been an open secret for as long as I can remember and my memory (when it works) goes back pretty far. If I'm wrong let Willet fess up where they got it, they sure as Hell didn't make it.

OK, wasn't sure if there was more than that. I have nothing against the NDP but do agree there should be more clarity regarding the sourcing. My take on some of the NDP brouhaha though is that in the best case these NDP's are selecting from a vast stock of different mash bills and ages within a large distillery context and are ideally tasting and selecting the barrels they would choose to distill themselves given the resources. I know that is somewhat idealistic as some of the NDP's are just cashing in on the bourbon boom but my shelf does have room for some of them.

[AnotherCigarGuy]

Our local had the 4 and the 5 today for the same price. Haven't seen anything older.

[theglobalguy]

Our local had the 4 and the 5 today for the same price. Haven't seen anything older.

The Rye or the Bourbon?

Will say the Bourbon has been rare here in past 6 months but the 4yr Rye is widely available.

[squire]

I wish that were true NW, at least it would be some basis for the NDPs charging premium prices, but alas it's not. The hand selected myth is what NDPs fall back on when it becomes widely known they didn't actually make the stuff. If they were allowed to cherry pick barrels Black Maple Hill would still be a 16 year aged stated whisky instead of NAS.

Truth is they buy what they can get and all NAS tells us is the whisky is 4 years old. The repackaging of bulk whisky into a brand wrapped in myths of exclusivity is a deceitful practice calculated to mislead customers into paying premium prices.

[AnotherCigarGuy]

The Rye or the Bourbon?

Will say the Bourbon has been rare here in past 6 months but the 4yr Rye is widely available.

Sorry. Rye. Was $40.

[NWBourbonDrinker]

I wish that were true NW, at least it would be some basis for the NDPs charging premium prices, but alas it's not. The hand selected myth is what NDPs fall back on when it becomes widely known they didn't actually make the stuff. If they were allowed to cherry pick barrels Black Maple Hill would still be a 16 year aged stated whisky instead of NAS.

Truth is they buy what they can get and all NAS tells us is the whisky is 4 years old. The repackaging of bulk whisky into a brand wrapped in myths of exclusivity is a deceitful practice calculated to mislead customers into paying premium prices.

You are definitely not alone in that opinion. I simply don't know and have fun exploring right now and only repurchase where my tastebuds do the talking. I do know Bourbon is a funny beast. You simply cannot decide to enter the business as a distiller and have product available. Can you imagine making the capital investment to stand up or recommission a distillery and know that you would have no product of merit for four years and nothing really noteworthy for 10? Given the ebbs and flows of consumer desire you might not even have much of a market to sell to when you are fully up and running. That is no excuse for active deception or contrived scarcity but when you look at someone like Smooth Ambler I believe you can see that there is a best case possible in all of this.

[theglobalguy]

You are definitely not alone in that opinion. I simply don't know and have fun exploring right now and only repurchase where my tastebuds do the talking. I do know Bourbon is a funny beast. You simply cannot decide to enter the business as a distiller and have product available. Can you imagine making the capital investment to stand up or recommission a distillery and know that you would have no product of merit for four years and nothing really noteworthy for 10? Given the ebbs and flows of consumer desire you might not even have much of a market to sell to when you are fully up and running. That is no excuse for active deception or contrived scarcity but when you look at someone like Smooth Ambler I believe you can see that there is a best case possible in all of this.

I'd argue High West and a small few others would belong on that list as well. Open and honest about their source product.

Willett is (along with many many others) purposefully vague. Their tour is outstanding but even when having the samples they tell outright false stories about the product. That being said, i have NO idea why they have such a massive time delay in their backlog, seems you'd either turn down a few requests and catch back up (see: customer service) or expand output via temp/contract hiring.

[NWBourbonDrinker]

I'd argue High West and a small few others would belong on that list as well. Open and honest about their source product.

Willett is (along with many many others) purposefully vague. Their tour is outstanding but even when having the samples they tell outright false stories about the product. That being said, i have NO idea why they have such a massive time delay in their backlog, seems you'd either turn down a few requests and catch back up (see: customer service) or expand output via temp/contract hiring.

That is too bad. I don't know much about some of these brands so right now I am trying a bit of everything and learning as I go (big thanks to all who are sharing on this site.) I definitely don't like deception but wonder how much is intent and how much is clumsy brand managers simply stretching (or twisting) the truth to increase their stature? I guess it doesn't matter in the end, you are either honest or not and the motive isn't relevant if they aren't trustworthy.

[squire]

A pattern of deception ongoing for years is not clumsy management.

[NWBourbonDrinker]

A pattern of deception ongoing for years is not clumsy management.

I am slowly coming to understand some of this. I like to think the best of people but sometimes that translates into being simply naive. I appreciate the information and opinions you and others are sharing. I am not super selective right now as I am building a nice selection but ultimately I want to support what is healthy long term for the bourbon industry.

[MauiSon]

I think it's more important to support your own health and enjoyment, the bourbon industry is doing fine. Some find vagueness and mystery frustrating, others not so much.

Edited August 4, 2013 by MauiSon

[GaryT]

Great point MauiSon - if I like what comes out of the bottle well enough to part with the dough they ask for, who distilled it becomes secondary. Sure, I'd like to know for my own curiosity, and knowing that might help me find other bottles I haven't tried but am likely to enjoy. But ultimately - we know so freaking little about the origins of what we put into our bodies (across the board), so not knowing the distiller of a particular label doesn't preclude me from picking it up. I love Johnny Drum Private Stock, and enjoy Noah's Mill. What would bother me more (if I experienced it, as others have) is huge variability - although I think you find that from distiller producers as well.

[TunnelTiger]

I'd argue High West and a small few others would belong on that list as well. Open and honest about their source product.

Well I'm new and I've been burnt on some purchases this past month so unless I see a whole lot of positive posts on here I'm going to avoid all NDP's with the exception of High West and Whistle Pig for the forseable future.

[GaryT]

If I'd been burnt by a particular label (ie - inconsistency, or just not what I liked), I'd avoid them as well. I'd avoid Whistle Pig just over their price (if I'm going to be NDP rye, I'd go Jefferson's at half the price for what to my palate is essentially the same thing). I just tried my first Ezra Brooks recently and thought it was fantastic for the dough. There are some I don't care for, but on this forum I think you'll see a disproportionate number of "purists" (which isn't a criticism of those fine folks) who don't like not knowing where the juice is distilled. The fact that many in this group shuns those wouldn't be a reason that I would automatically.

[TunnelTiger]

Haven't tried the Jefferson's yet so it's going on my "got to try it list"

[NWBourbonDrinker]

If I'd been burnt by a particular label (ie - inconsistency, or just not what I liked), I'd avoid them as well. I'd avoid Whistle Pig just over their price (if I'm going to be NDP rye, I'd go Jefferson's at half the price for what to my palate is essentially the same thing). I just tried my first Ezra Brooks recently and thought it was fantastic for the dough. There are some I don't care for, but on this forum I think you'll see a disproportionate number of "purists" (which isn't a criticism of those fine folks) who don't like not knowing where the juice is distilled. The fact that many in this group shuns those wouldn't be a reason that I would automatically.

I would agree with this statement. This is a site frequented by those who love bourbon enough to seek out like minded individuals to discuss only (or mostly) that topic. For that reason you are going to get a small slice of the opinion pie. The other side of that coin though is the level of expertise and experience behind those opinions is also disproportionally high.

I enjoy all the opinions though and likely fall somewhere in the middle. I do think there is something to be said for focusing your consumer spending on support of operations that are healthy for the industry (consider it investing in your future ability to buy good bourbon) but also will buy a bottle that I like regardless of the source.

[squire]

but on this forum I think you'll see a disproportionate number of "purists" (which isn't a criticism of those fine folks) who don't like not knowing where the juice is distilled.

Gary, for the most part we do know who made the whisky and that is actually the issue. What I object to is a guy trying to sell me a Ford for Cadillac prices while making false pretenses about his product.

[GaryT]

Gary, for the most part we do know who made the whisky and that is actually the issue. What I object to is a guy trying to sell me a Ford for Cadillac prices while making false pretenses about his product.

And that's what I guess I miss. There is a lot of stuff that is over priced (IMO) when I consider the contents, whether sold by NDPs or distilleries (I personally think Bakers is way overpriced, and I know folks who think THH is way over-priced at $70 where I'd pay that if I was out and looking). And I'm unclear on the false pretense aspect as well. But keep in mind - the distilleries are selling these contents to those folks. If those NDPs don't buy it, some other NDPs would - or the distilleries themselves would start using it elsewhere. I don't know that boycotting NDPs does much overall, although I completely agree with not over-paying for bourbon. Good example is Willett Pot Still, which I bought one for the bottle alone (and recognized I was over-paying). If I don't think something is worth the price, I absolutely won't buy it again - although for me, the only way to find out if I like it is to try it. And if I like it (and it seems to be fairly consistent), I'll continue to buy it - regardless of whether it was bottled by the distillery or not.

I support buying what I like, and feel is a good value for the price. I think that supports a healthy marketplace, although truth be told - it is an entirely selfish approach on my part