New vs Used barrels

[squire]

In 1938, about 70 years ago, a politician from Arkansas spearheaded a bill through Congress that required Bourbon to be aged exclusively in new charred oak barrels. He was protecting his constituents, the Ozark timber industry, but before that distillers were free to use refurbished oak barrels to age their product and still call it Straight Bourbon Whisky.

I think we all can agree the best Bourbon is aged in new barrels but Worldwide some excellent stuff is crafted using our used barrels so from an historical perspective I wonder. What would a current bottle of Early Times taste like straight from its used barrel and at full strength, 125 or so proof.

[TunnelTiger]

Can I assume they could age some in used barrels and call it something different and if so with the brand explosion I'm surprised some marketing guru hasn't pushed it through?

[squire]

Well that's exactly what Brown Forman does with its Early Times Whiskey brand, 80% used barrels and 20% new barrels. Unfortunately they release it at 3 years old and 80 proof so we can only guess at the potential of the used barrels.

[squire]

Actually ET is styled Old Style Kentucky Whiskey which is appropriate but as yet the other majors have not followed suit.

[Balcones Winston]

Nothing wrong with used barrels. Ask me how I know

[squire]

Ok . . . how do you know?

[MyOldKyDram]

Personally I would love to see more expressions give it a whirl. Think it has the potential for some really interesting products long term.

[portwood]

Personally I would love to see more expressions give it a whirl.

Whisky producers the world over probably hope that never happens. :slappin:

If the American whiskey industry suddenly decided to re-use barrels, the economics of aging brown spirits would change significantly.

[smokinjoe]

Personally I would love to see more expressions give it a whirl. Think it has the potential for some really interesting products long term.

Me too. I guess you could say they are entering the field with the recent introductions of various "finished" whiskies/bourbons. Personally, I think the various wood finishing of bourbons and ryes is one of the most exciting things happening in our little hobby. More, please...

[PaulO]

...

I think we all can agree the best Bourbon is aged in new barrels but Worldwide some excellent stuff is crafted using our used barrels so from an historical perspective I wonder. What would a current bottle of Early Times taste like straight from its used barrel and at full strength, 125 or so proof.

Can you get Mello Corn in MS? It's 100 proof. I think it could give some idea. :cool: If I remember correctly, it's "corn whiskey" because they use used barrels.

[squire]

That's a good thought Paul and yes, we do have Mellow Corn available here. Unfortunately it's recipe lacks wheat or rye which remove it from the traditional Bourbon flavor profile. Does show the efficacy of used barrels though.

[Phil T]

There are many members here who love the ultra aged ryes, but they also talk of the wood influence after 20 plus years. Usually very prominent, but the love of these ryes are apparent. ..

The HW 21yr rye was aged in used barrels. I've enjoyed one bottle, a truly outstanding pour. And to my palate, no wood influence at all. So in this case, I can certainly see the merit of using used barrels( as in eliminating the wood taste in ultra aging)

[tanstaafl2]

Didn't we get something like this with the largely panned Woodford Master's Collection rye set? I think there was some real potential here if they had only let it spend more time in the barrel. I don't know what the age of this whiskey set was but it was probably not long enough.

I am not even sure if that rye whiskey was all Woodford produced and of course the mashbill is also a mystery. As discussed in another thread this seems like the kind of thing that really should make the full details of the distillate public rather than keep it a secret. Not like anybody else is likely to make a similar product after all.

[squire]

Hell, if anybody tried to copy the recipe different stills and aging conditions would make a different product and even then it wouldn't be ready to sell it for years.

[Josh]

Mellow Corn is not 100% corn. Pretty sure it contains some rye. Not a lot, but some.

[squire]

Ack, you're right Josh, I should have edited that post more carefully. What I meant to say is the Mellow Corn mash bill contains no wheat and only about 1/2 the rye (around 7%) found in traditional Bourbon recipes. I need to get another bottle because further tasting is required.

Edited August 26, 2013 by squire

[Bourbon Boiler]

There's not a huge cost savings in the barrel itself right now, as used barrels are not as easy to find or as cheap anymore. Maybe you wouldn't lose as much juice as quickly, but I don't see it being a huge cost changer.

[sutton]

Ever had Greenore 15 yo? I would love to see some of the bourbon/rye mashbills aged out 15-20 yrs in used cooperage. I am also surprised someone hasn't tried this (or perhaps they have, and the results aren't worth the price they'd have to charge to hold onto the stock that long?) Maybe try it on the first floor of the rickhouse?

[squire]

For a lot of years now (over a century I expect) the Canadians have been making Bourbon style flavoring whiskys and aging them in used cooperage. No telling what might come out of the woodwork when the price gets right.

[Danger]

Surely some amazing products would show up if this were allowed. Used barrels are how the best scotch gets produced, right?

[393foureyedfox]

i figure if scotch wasnt aged in used bourbon barrels, that it would be even more undrinkable

[squire]

Surely some amazing products would show up if this were allowed. Used barrels are how the best scotch gets produced, right?

That's right and it's been that way for a couple hundred years now.

[tanstaafl2]

Ever had Greenore 15 yo? I would love to see some of the bourbon/rye mashbills aged out 15-20 yrs in used cooperage. I am also surprised someone hasn't tried this (or perhaps they have, and the results aren't worth the price they'd have to charge to hold onto the stock that long?) Maybe try it on the first floor of the rickhouse?

I suppose Greenore is a bit like current American corn whiskey aged for 15 years, probably at a lower level in the rickhouse as you suggest given the relatively cooler environment in Ireland. Personally I like the 15 and agree that it would be interesting to see what would happen to typical bourbon or rye mashbills aged that long in used barrels. Greenore 8, while much easier to find, is much less interesting to me though suggesting it would indeed to take a longer time in used barrels to get an interesting product.

[ChainWhip]

i figure if scotch wasnt aged in used bourbon barrels, that it would be even more undrinkable

Not entirely true... some of the Single Malt producers have been experimenting with virgin oak casks (E.g. Glenmorangie Ealanta & Benriach Virgin Oak) with some promising results.

That's right and it's been that way for a couple hundred years now.

There's also used mizurana oak, cognac/armagnac/calvados, rum and all the fortified wine barrels/casks/butts/etc., (port, madeira, sherry) - AE is one notable NDP that has been making some use of these.

I'm personally very keen to taste the results of these experiments.

[tmckenzie]

Mellow corn I am told has a mash bill of 90 corn, 5 rye, 5 malt.