New Bourbon Drinker

[jimbo]

I am a long time scotch drinker. I prefer the single malts from Islay, no ice, no water. I have maintained for years that I didn't like bourbon. (Probably as a result of drinking low cost whiskey mixed with coke.) But, I decided to give bourbon a try after reading some reviews by Dave Broom and Jim Murray.

I have tried Wild Turkey Rare Breed, Elijah Craig 12 yr and Maker's Mark 90 proof, no ice, no water. The Wild Turkey is execellent, the Maker's Mark is great and the Elijah Craig is very good.

I have the following on my shopping list:

Blanton's Gold Edition

Elmer T Lee Single Barrel

George Dickel Superior No 12

Jack Daniels Single Barrel

Knob Creek 9 yr

Booker's 7 yr

Evan Williams Single Barrel

Any suggestions or comments welcome.

Regards, Jim

[Paradox]

Welcome to the board Jim. Without knowing your location it is hard for me to say this for sure, but if you are in the US finding the Blanton's Gold edition will be hard. The standard Blanton's is superb so I would guess the Gold will be as well. I know it is very good at Barrel Proof. Keep in mind that George Dickel and Jack Daniels are not technically bourbon's but rather Tennessee Whiskies. Many on here have had mixed reviews about George Dickel No 12, some even saying they have tastes vitamins in it. The Jack Daniels SB is not too bad. All of your other choices are also very good. Let us know your impressions as you try each new bourbon off of your list, we'd like to hear them!

[bluesbassdad]

Jim,

Welcome aboard, and congratulations on deciding to expand your horizons.

It's remarkable that you enjoy three such varied bourbons as those you mentioned. (In all honesty, it's your liking Maker's Mark that really caught my attention. It has few fans on this board.)

You didn't say anything about considerations of cost. I suppose that your experience with scotch has accustomed you to a price range that far exceeds all but extremely limited bottlings of bourbon.

In that case I unhesitatingly suggest that you look for just about anything with "Van Winkle" on the label (Pappy VW, Old Rip VW, VW Family Reserve), with Old Rip Van Winkle 10 year/107 proof being as a good a place to start as any. IMO it's one of the best bargains in bourbon at around $25. Another favorite of mine, and much different in style than those on your list, is Eagle Rare Single Barrel 10 y/o.

BTW, if I were you, I'd move the two Tennessee whiskies ("whiskeys"? neither looks right) to the bottom of your list, if not to a different list entirely. I have both in my collection, and each is interesting in its own way, but I seldom drink either of them; there are just too many bourbons that I enjoy more.

Yours truly,

Dave Morefield

[Dave_in_Canada]

Hi Jim, we share a common past. Gotta love the Islay's but my personal favourite is the Talisker (Skye). I too was a staunch single malt follower. I started on Bourbon about 10 years ago and I'd have to say that in the last two years, the Scottish single malts have slowly faded to the background. I'm not suggesting this will happen to you, but watch out! :

Having said that, you will likely find many bourbons do not have the body and flavour that will entice your tastebuds, if you're looking for the same kick as an Islay. From the list you have submitted, I imagine you'll find the Knob Creek and the Bookers most to your liking. Lots of woody flavours.

One brand you'll definitely want to search out is the Van Winkle lineup. Most readily available might be the 10year old 107 proof, but my favourite, for the price, is the 15 year old. The 12 year old is a great all-round bourbon.

On the less expensive side, you'll see alot of folk on this forum recommending the Weller 12yr. IMHO one of the best for the price.

Enjoy!

[Paradox]

I found it strange as well Dave, that he liked Makers Mark, even placing it before Elijah Craig. I'm not overly fond of Elijah Craig 12 year, but it beats Makers Mark! Also in agreement is moving the Jack and George to the bottom of the list. There are too many other fine, and if cost is a matter, inexpensive bourbons out there to enjoy. I particularly like all of Julian's bourbon (and rye!) and the 10 year 107 proof is a good buy. Also, I didn't mention any suggestions in my post so I'll one too. If you can find it and it is within your budget, grab a bottle of AH Hirsch 16 year old. It is superb bourbon and will eventually be all gone so try it while you can!

[Bob]

Hi Jim,

Welcome aboard! I too am a Single Malt fan, and love Islay's. We should talk about that over in the Foreign Whisky area. Regarding Bourbon, my fondness for Bourbon has increased significantly over the past year. Like others, I highly recommend any of Julian Van Winkle's fine products, and the very fine Buffalo Trace line-up. At the Bourbon Festival, I was introduced to the Barton Bourbon's and recommend those also. They are all very reasonably priced. I'd recommend their newly released 1792 Ridgewood Reserve. It is VERY GOOD!

Bob

[bobbyc]

Welcome Jim,

There's really nothing wrong with liking Maker's . You have to start somewhere and they are aiming at new drinkers with their marketing and brand mystique. After a stroll around the Bourbon Block most find a better way, and things that are to their liking in a more specific way. One of our Bourbon Festival conversations dealt with the fact that when we sometimes say we don't care for Maker's or Jim Beam White or Jack Daniels, which are top selling brands, Jack and Jim sell the most and Maker's sell all they can make. Then someone new to the board comes on only to see unfavorable remarks about a favorite drink. What we most don't like about Maker's isn't the whiskey, but price etc. I would think that given your drinking history, you should fairly easily find your way though our favorite drink here . In the end, your own opinion is what counts , enjoy.

Jim Beam Black is similiar to Knob Creek and cheaper

Old Forester 86 is reasonable, If one were to pick a representative sample of Bourbon, This would be the likely choice.

WT 101 or Russell's Reserve

I would second the idea of putting the Tennessee whiskey down on the list, nothing wrong there, it's just a different page.

Welcome to this near endless journey!

[jeff]

Great post Bobby and I agree wholehartedly. As someone who enjoys Maker's Mark I am sometimes bewildered by the abuse that it takes here on the boards. I agree that the price is a little steep, but it's not the rotgut a newbie might expect after reading some posts here. I believe Maker's Mark has done more for the total image and recognition of bourbon world-wide than any other producer. For that at least they are deserving of some level of respect.

[kitzg]

I'll simply add my welcome and say you've had a great start and now you've gotten a lot of good suggestions by others.

You may want to try at least a brand from each major distiller. You'll find you can sort by distiller if you go to the straightbourbon.com home page and go to "brands."

An example: (forgive mispellings as I'll be in a hurry here)

Austin-Nichols -- you like Rare Breed so try Russell's Reserve or Kentucky Spirit

Jim Beam -- you already have the 2 on the list: Knob Creek (Definitely try this one) and Bookers (127 proof), then if you want a big comparison try Old Grand Dad BIB

Heaven Hill -- you like E. Craig so the Evan Williams Single Barrel would be next

Brown Forman -- try Woodford Reserve (though I think you'll find it a little less Kick)

Barton -- try 1792

Buffalo Trace -- so many great brands that I'd have to just try several: Elmer T. Lee, Weller 12, Eagle Rare (both single barrel and 19 are superb, and I even love the 10 yo), Blanton's.... PLUS, VanWinkle (anything)

HAVE FUN and let us know how it goes!

[CL]

Excellent post, Bobby.

[CL]

Some thoughts...

When most of us started drinking bourbon, we succumbed to the MM image and thought it was the best bourbon out there. And compared to JB and JD, it was. But, after we started trying the wider variety of bourbons (primarily, after joining SB.com!), we may have felt silly having spent all that money and heaping all that praise on MM.

Also, I think that many of us still love the MM marketing and we get frustrated that MM won't bottle a product worthy of its reputation.

In the two ways above, we feel jilted. Consequently, we sometimes despise our "ex" and tend to bash it.

Anyhow, that's my theory and I am sticking to it.

[MurphyDawg]

Also, I think that many of us still love the MM marketing and we get frustrated that MM won't bottle a product worthy of its reputation.

Exactly MM is a great $14 bourbon that I would have to pay $19 - $23 to buy here. Yeah the MM guys have great marketing and have done a lot to shed bourbons rotgut image, and thats great. At the risk of sounding cranky though I have to say that I have never heard "wow, thats marketed well" as a positive comment in a blind tasting, there red wax helps them sell a lot of bourbon at a premium price, but does nothing for the contents of the bottle. It is a good entry level wheated bourbon, especially because EVERYBODY starts there (me too, and I still think it is good, just $$$$$), but I bet most dont turn back when faced with a choice between MM and Weller 12 or VanWinkle 10/107 both at around that pricw or cheaper. So my advice on MM, Buy it, Love it, move on, look back fondly but dont waste the money again.

BLEEEE

TomC

[MurphyDawg]

Dont listen to the vitamin contingency!! George Dickel 12 is worth a try (if not only for the same reason as MM, its decent priced and if you dont like it, you dont have to look back!!)

TomC

[Black85L98]

Great post Bobby and I agree wholehartedly. As someone who enjoys Maker's Mark I am sometimes bewildered by the abuse that it takes here on the boards. I agree that the price is a little steep, but it's not the rotgut a newbie might expect after reading some posts here. I believe Maker's Mark has done more for the total image and recognition of bourbon world-wide than any other producer. For that at least they are deserving of some level of respect.

I agree.

I like Makers and must take my hat off to the Marketing Department. When I am converting a mixer to Bourbon I start by buying them Makers. It is an easy to drink nice laid back Bourbon.

I like others better in other ways. OGD 114, EC 12, and Eagle Rare SB, are some of my current favorites but my tastes change from time to time and even from night to night. Who knows I may fall in love with Makers all over again.

[Blackkeno]

Welcome! I too am fond of other whiskies. If you like Islays you of course will not find peaty bourbons, but you can certainly find some powerful ones. Although there are only a handful of barrel proof bourbons, there are a wide range sold at 100 proof or more. I also enjoy MM. If you can find it overseas or in duty free, you might want to pick up the 101 proof. Weller Centenniel 100 proof is another great wheater. My favorate Tennessee whiskey is Gentleman Jack. Ditto the other suggestions from the board.

[bluesbassdad]

Greg,

... Eagle Rare (both single barrel and 19 are superb, and I even love the 10 yo)...

You have reminded me that I continually confuse the two younger Eagle Rare bottlings. I did it yet again in my earlier reply in this thread.

Sometime back I got it into my head that the Single Barrel is also 10 years old. That confusion caused me to order a bottle of the 10 year old by mistake. As mistakes go, that was a rather pleasant one. However, I hope my earlier post, now too old to edit, doesn't confuse anyone else.

Yours truly,

Dave Morefield

[Paradox]

Ok Dave, now I'm getting confused as well. Let's clear this up... The Eagle Rare Single Barrel is a 10 year old whiskey. Then there is an Eagle Rare 10 year old 101 Proof. And finally there is the forever great (in my book ) Eagle Rare 17 year old from the Antique Collection. I've never had the 10 year 101 Eagle Rare (Though I'm sure it is good) but the other 2 are superb in my book.

[Speedy_John]

Welcome to Bourbonia.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record to this board's regular's, I would highly recommend my current favorite American whiskey--Van Winkle Family Reserve Straight Rye Whiskey 13yo . True, it's not a bourbon, but still one of the best distilled spirits on the planet. Packed with a seemingly endless array of aromas and flavors. Just thinking about this stuff makes me yearn for a glass...and it's only 9:20 AM! At $26 a bottle (here in PA), it's also the best whiskey bargains going.

I'd also heartily recommend the Sazerac Rye 18yo. Yummy stuff, if you can find it. I'll second the nomination of Wild Turkey Kentucky Spirit.

I may have missed it, but did anyone mention George T. Stagg or Old Forester Birthday Bourbon? Folks here have raved about both these elixirs for the better part of a year. I can personally attest to the greatness of Stagg , but, unfortunately, the OFBB has never seen these parts Both are rare finds: the Stagg because it was a limited release and sold quickly (but may soon be seen again); the OFBB because certain people, who shall remain nameless , hoard it by the case. If you ever find either one, buy without hesitation.

Enjoy the journey.

SpeedyJohn

[Forbes]

Jeff,

Here is where we have agreed in the past. I will concede that while Maker’s Mark is probably not the best value in bourbon today it is an excellent product for a reasonable price compared to some other premium bourbons. Over the years Maker’s Mark has done much to market itself and the bourbon industry as a whole. Of course if they didn’t have a basically good product all this marketing wouldn’t mean anything. In some of the small taverns I have visited it is the only premium bourbon behind the bar. I know one of the knocks against Maker’s Mark is that while other distillers will release a new bottling Maker’s Mark will release their same product with a different color wax or label. However, this has always been their business plan and you have to admit it has worked. They have been able to sell and get a somewhat premium price for everything that they have been able to produce. Now I know on this board we are in the minority when it comes to our appreciation for Maker’s Mark. It is only one of many bottlings that I enjoy, however, as Charlie Daniels would say “give the devil its due.â€

One question thou is how the retirement of their Master Distiller, Steve Nally, is going to effect the company?

Todd

[SteelerFan]

Where do you find VWFR Rye in Pa. ??

[Paradox]

Looks to be limited availability or 'strategically located' according to the PA Liquor Control Board website. You can run a search for whatever you want and see if they carry it/can get it using their product search page.

[Speedy_John]

In know there are several stores in the Pittsburgh area that have it in stock. You might want to call the PLCB consumer hot-line. They can tell you if a store closer to you has it. The phone number is 1-800-332-7522. The product code number for the VWFR Rye 13yo is #10230. BTW, it's $24.99 plus tax (6% in most areas, 7% in Pittsburgh and Philadelphia). Happy hunting.

SpeedyJohn

[CL]

Of course if they didn’t have a basically good product all this marketing wouldn’t mean anything.

Not necessarily. Look at Jack Daniels. I'd be hard pressed to call that a good product.

[brendaj]

Todd,

as Charlie Daniels would say “give the devil its due.â€

While I have to agree, this isn't the worst Bourbon I've ever swallowed

(followed further down the line, by stuff I've spit out... )

I do have a problem, now that they are trying to trademark 'wax drips'.

same product with a different color wax or label

This forces other distilleries to have to devise a way to avoid gravity, more manhours in bottling, additional cost, etc. Pretty selfish, IMHO. Starting to remind me of Microsuck...

Bj

[kitzg]

My fault, too. I usually write ER 19 but mean ER 17. SORRY.

And I think they are ALL superb. I enjoy the Eagle Rare 10 year old, 101 proof very much and it has been a recent purchase and recent frequent pour for me.