Re-aging straight whiskey - charred cask

[Gillman]

Some time ago I attended a Remy Martin Cognac tasting and at the end of the night, we were given mini-kegs to age anything we liked in it, Cognac or another drink. The kegs were new oak and charred black inside.

The keg sat unused for quite some time, but finally I dumped a bottle of near-white dog in it. It was a rye mash whiskey from a craft distiller which had been given 3 months aging in a small cask before sale.

When I put it in, the whiskey was light yellow. I put the little keg in a straw basket (oblong, planter-type, it happened to fit snugly) and left it on the balcony from later June until now.

In the first two days, an appetizing smell arose from the keg as the liquor soaked in - very similar to a bourbon warehouse.

The temperatures probably swung between 60 F and 95 F at various times, with of course nights generally on the cool end of this.

I tasted it after a month, and now again. It has improved each time. The colour now is quite dark, like any good 8-12 year bourbon. The taste is half way to a good bourbon or rye: it still has some taste from the white dog and perhaps from the first cask it was put in. Like many craft whiskeys given some age, it had a piney, spruce-like smell, and I've never been sure if that is from insufficiently seasoned small casks or from short aging in any new charred wood no matter the size. Anyway the piney taste is diminishing, but it's still there partly. I will leave it out a couple more months but finally will have to take it in because it will get too cold in Toronto to leave it out there. It was 80 proof, so could freeze. However, a couple more months may "finish" the aging, or close enough for me. I am quite happy with this experiment, and can see that in a keg of any size, charred and new wood, you will definitely get improvement even if it won't replicate completely the slow oxidative changes of normal barrel aging.

It's pretty fair now actually.

Gary

Edited September 11, 2013 by Gillman

[393foureyedfox]

80 proof isnt going to freeze, unless it gets REALLY cold. i keep several bottles of homemade limoncello in the freezer all year, and they are 70 proof. they get slightly syrupy, but no ice in them at all. id leave it in there until the temptation got to be more than i could stand.

id like to test your theory as well. get a case of HH BIB and reage it a few more years. aged at 8 or 9 years total, it may come out 105-110 proof, and be just right.

[Gillman]

Well, maybe it won't freeze, good point, but there would be little development I think over this period. I think I will take it as is with two more months. Definitely re-aging in wood makes sense though, your plan is a good one. Both for practical and possibly maturation reasons, it makes sense to re-age at least a case - so you need a keg of commensurate size. I would ensure though that it is seasoned well to get out any piney or sappy notes.

Gary

Edited September 11, 2013 by Gillman

[393foureyedfox]

12 750s are bout 2.5 gallons. i dont know how big your mini barrel is, or its quality (leakiness), but a case of HH BIB around here would set you back about $100, and i think itd be a worthwhile experiment. if youre worried about the cold outside balcony, keep it inside. the smell would be awesome anyway!

[GaryT]

Ralfy just did a video on a poor man's version of something similar. I haven't tried it (yet), but aim to find some birch and give that a go.

http://youtu.be/0zRkoT6nFu0

I noticed in trying to take some charred oak chips and let white dog age with them that color came more quickly than I expected, but it retained that corn sweetness of a young make. I wonder if a second fill of new make might do even better?

[squire]

Umm guys, you know you can already buy 8-10 year old Bourbon, don't 'cha?

[portwood]

Umm guys, you know you can already buy 8-10 year old Bourbon, don't 'cha?

Yes, but then they would be average-joe bourbon buyers - not geeks - and wouldn't know SB dot com even existed:slappin:

[squire]

Gotta admit, from that perspective the idea has merit.

[Enoch]

Actually, I did this a few years back with a 5 L barrel. I would leave it out for a month (95+ DEGREES) and then put in freezer for a month to simulate the expansion and contraction. I also read to dump after putting it in the freezer for a few day to maximize pull from wood. After 4 months it was almost too strong to drink and had a very green piney taste. Not bad but not worth the cost of white dog and barrel. I still have about 2 handles that I sip occasionally. Just my two cents worth.

FYI: The freezing point of 80-proof alcohol is -26 Celsius or -16 Fahrenheit

Read more: http://www.ehow.com/facts_7365307_freezing-point-80-proof-whiskey.html#ixzz2eaXZ8QX3

Edited September 11, 2013 by Enoch

[squire]

In a home unit 80 proof whisky doesn't freeze, rather it develops a very thick texture.

[Yeti]

I've had a mind to do something like this for a while but haven't pulled the trigger. I think the real success, and this is just hypothesis, comes from thinking of "finishing" rather than "aging". This probably works better if the barrel has been used once or twice as well, so the intensity of the new wood and small surface area are mitigated. I would probably age something I wasn't going to sip straight to begin with, like white rum. If I ruin 3L of Bacardi, it's just going to get mixed in with coke, no big deal. Then 2nd fill, maybe some local moonshine - give it a little color, and maybe get some kind of bizarre AE Rye thing going on from the rum (but probably not). Then I would think the barrel would have mellowed enough to try some real "finishing" of straight whiskies. Maybe barrel aging the SB blend (which has been mentioned here on the board before). Eventually the barrel would become mostly dormant and would probably be a good vessel for doing cocktail mingling (which has also been mentioned here many times).

[Yeti]

Seems like I'm going to have to put someone else's money where my mouth is. I was checking my Amazon wishlist and somebody has apparently bought me a 3L barrel. Guess we'll see how this goes in practice.

[Gillman]

The mini-keg I used holds just a liter - it sits on a cradle and you can find them online. It never leaked, not a drop, nor did it impart I believe any piney taste but rather is diminishing what is there in that regard. I feel some small barrels used by the craft distilling industry may be imparting this sappy spruce note, but am not sure.

Gary

[squire]

I wouldn't be surprised Gary, I doubt the small producers have the buying clout to demand 3 year old air aged wood.

[Balcones Winston]

Important to realize that these small hobby barrels probably aren't constructed of the most high quality wood. And the increased surface contact will amplify the effect of cheap wood, hence the typical piney and harsh green flavors. If the wood was fully yard aged, I imagine we could make some good hobby whiskeys at home, but that would be pretty expensive.

[Balcones Winston]

I've had a mind to do something like this for a while but haven't pulled the trigger. I think the real success, and this is just hypothesis, comes from thinking of "finishing" rather than "aging". This probably works better if the barrel has been used once or twice as well, so the intensity of the new wood and small surface area are mitigated.

I thought about suggesting this though I have never tried it. You would essentially "wet season" the wood (versus dry seasoning the staves before it is made into a barrel) over a couple years to remove all of the sappy green tannins.

[squire]

Coupla years just to season the barrel huh? This is taking Bourbon Geekery to a whole new level.

[Balcones Winston]

Coupla years just to season the barrel huh? This is taking Bourbon Geekery to a whole new level.

Well... I'm used to cooperage that was yard aged 2-3 years or more

[squire]

I was talking about the rest of us Winston.

[theglobalguy]

Are there high quality hobby barrels out there? Or all cheap and cheerful kind.

[Balcones Winston]

Are there high quality hobby barrels out there? Or all cheap and cheerful kind.

Well, if you had a wood source I don't think it would be impossible to find a maker that will do a custom one for you

Edited September 14, 2013 by Balcones Winston

[sailor22]

I have a friend who is doing some delicious aging/finishing with small one and two liter barrels. He has been using the same barrels for more than 8 or 9 years now and says they are getting better every refill. and weren't very good for the first few refills.

Even considering standard 53 gal. size barrels, only a small percent of them make exceptional whiskey. The rest manage to create only average juice. I would imagine the same holds true for small barrels.

[Balcones Winston]

I have a friend who is doing some delicious aging/finishing with small one and two liter barrels. He has been using the same barrels for more than 8 or 9 years now and says they are getting better every refill. and weren't very good for the first few refills.

Probably thanks in part to the fact that all the negative aspects of the wood have been leeched out by now.

Even considering standard 53 gal. size barrels, only a small percent of them make exceptional whiskey. The rest manage to create only average juice. I would imagine the same holds true for small barrels.

If you're using poor quality cooperage, then yes, that is most likely true. I don't know of anyone in the bourbon industry that is using fully yard-aged wood.

[Enoch]

Important to realize that these small hobby barrels probably aren't constructed of the most high quality wood. And the increased surface contact will amplify the effect of cheap wood, hence the typical piney and harsh green flavors. If the wood was fully yard aged, I imagine we could make some good hobby whiskeys at home, but that would be pretty expensive.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Enoch

[Balcones Winston]

and then soak in water for 24 hours before using. He also warned about leaving the barrel open while outside.