What Wee Dram Are You Enjoying Now - Fall 2013/Winter 2014

[AaronWF]

I thought Lag16 has the darker color due to e150 - the German sites note "Mit Farbstoff" on that expression. (This doesn't mean it has not spent time in sherry butts however)

It must be said that the Lag12 also has e150...

[ChainWhip]

I was under the impression that for the most part Lagavulin has used the traditional refill sherry casks.

[AaronWF]

I had a few towering pours of regular old Strathisla 12 last night. There's an old-timey taste to this Speysider that I really like. It's a nice sherried comfort dram that I'd love to taste at a higher strength, but at $45 I'm not gonna worry about drinking half the bottle in one sitting.

Edited November 19, 2013 by AaronWF
Speysider, not Highlander

[ChainWhip]

Mit Farbstoff? Really? I don't go for that Farbstoff shite, I'll tell you that. It'll just make it easier for me to put the $90 for the 12yo CS towards something mitOUT Farbstoff!

[squire]

My information comes from the mid 1980s which referred to Lagavulin being aged in "traditional refill casks" which I read as being sherry casks. Of course these barrels were refilled three or four times until they wore out so any sherry influence may have been barely noticeable.

Donno know what they use now, ex Bourbon barrels make sense, but a limited edition finished in first fill Pedro Ximenex casks should have a definite Sherry note.

[ChainWhip]

That's interesting Squire - some of the marketing literature we see today coming out of various distilleries make it seem as if ex-bourbon casks are "traditional". Leave it to the scotch industry to make things clear as mud.

Edited November 19, 2013 by ChainWhip

[Brisko]

My information comes from the mid 1980s which referred to Lagavulin being aged in "traditional refill casks" which I read as being sherry casks. Of course these barrels were refilled three or four times until they wore out so any sherry influence may have been barely noticeable.

Donno know what they use now, ex Bourbon barrels make sense, but a limited edition finished in first fill Pedro Ximenex casks should have a definite Sherry note.

Squire, I believe you are exactly right, they used to do refill sherry. I vaguely recall reading (in more than one place) that they are now using second-fill bourbon for the 16 and reserving sherry for finishes and special releases. I have yet to find an unimpeachable source to back up that claim, though.

[LostBottle]

Squire, I believe you are exactly right, they used to do refill sherry. I vaguely recall reading (in more than one place) that they are now using second-fill bourbon for the 16 and reserving sherry for finishes and special releases. I have yet to find an unimpeachable source to back up that claim, though.

And apparently, the bourbon casks they do use are cleaned, refilled with grain spirit, left for a couple years, and then dumped before receiving new make Lagavulin. They also use quite a few casks previously used to hold Lagavulin, maybe this is where a hint of sherry comes from.

Edited November 19, 2013 by LostBottle

[sutton]

And apparently, the bourbon casks they do use are cleaned, refilled with grain spirit, left for a couple years, and then dumped before receiving new make Lagavulin.

Wow. Never heard that before. Is this because a refill bourbon cask has too little influence but a first-fill has too much? That is really interesting ... I wonder where that dumped spirit ends up...

[LostBottle]

If it were my guess, they are probably taking these steps to ensure a consistent profile while making production less reliant on their ability to source cooperage from any one source.

Edited November 19, 2013 by LostBottle

[Brisko]

Wow. Never heard that before. Is this because a refill bourbon cask has too little influence but a first-fill has too much? That is really interesting ... I wonder where that dumped spirit ends up...

Any of Diageo's NAS blend.

[squire]

Using grain whisky as the first fill serves two purposes, it provides a beefier base whisky for blends and softens the barrel influence on the subsequent malt fill(s).

The story behind all this is rather prosaic. The vineyard workers union in Spain negotiated for and got the right to bottle Sherry in Country rather than export it in barrels which created more jobs for them. Also meant limited numbers of Sherry barrels being available for the malt distillers and making the available ones more expensive for subsequent use.

Remember, the Scots started using Sherry and Port barrels in the first place because they were cheap and the native oak forests had been denuded by the 19th Century to make wooden sailing vessels for the British Navy. In more recent times when the supply of cheap Sherry barrels began drying up the Scots, being Scots, turned to the next best source which is Bourbon barrels and then adapted them to age malt whisky without it becoming too Bourbony.

[LostBottle]

Great bit of info, Squire. Thank you.

[MtnDew]

Great bit of info, Squire. Thank you.

Yeah, good info. I recently heard that it took something like 54 acres of oak forest to build a single ship back in the day, though it was not clear what size of ship that built. At that rate though, I can see why the Scots had to go elsewhere for barrels.

[portwood]

My information comes from the mid 1980s which referred to Lagavulin being aged in "traditional refill casks" which I read as being sherry casks.

That may have been the case in the 1980's. Now, the industry uses "traditional" to refer to ex-bourbon barrels and go out of their way to tell us when ex-sherry* casks are used.

*in many cases the casks didn't even come from Spain. They spray the inside of spent (or new) casks to infuse them with sherry prior to filling with new-make or "finishing" of already matured whisky.

[squire]

Yes they spray them and have other treatments as well. Doesn't really matter to me how they do it, blind tastings are my guide.

[AaronWF]

*in many cases the casks didn't even come from Spain. They spray the inside of spent (or new) casks to infuse them with sherry prior to filling with new-make or "finishing" of already matured whisky.

:puke:

That's gross. Seriously, I hate that shit. This is a big part of why I got into bourbon before malt; you always know what you're getting with bourbon, to different grades. With malt you have coloring, aging in wood with shit sprayed on it, and who knows what else.

At least there's always Springbank. Still, this is unsettling info.

[squire]

I'm not so concerned with the process what I don't care for is the way some Scottish producers hype and overcharge for what in the Bourbon world is really a mid shelf product.

[LostBottle]

:puke:

That's gross. Seriously, I hate that shit. This is a big part of why I got into bourbon before malt; you always know what you're getting with bourbon, to different grades. With malt you have coloring, aging in wood with shit sprayed on it, and who knows what else.

I both agree and disagree in regards to transparency. The E150c thing is definitely obnoxious. I don't like the thought of it either, but after looking at it pragmatically, I am not sure spraying sherry in a cask is really much different than finishing a bourbon in pipes already soaked with port. The one thing about malts is that you at least know who distilled the stuff, bourbon is very misleading about this - even with the teaspooned malts, it is fairly easy to tell and the name will often give it away. Sure, I have some issues with Scotch, but IMO the stuff tastes way better than bourbon and there is a huge range of flavors to explore.

[portwood]

The E150c thing is definitely obnoxious.

The stuff used in whisky and other high proof alcohols is e150a not c.

[LostBottle]

The stuff used in whisky and other high proof alcohols is e150a not c.

Got it, thanks for clarifying.

[squire]

Of note the Cognac makers also have a few "treatments" for the barrels. European hijinks in such matters have been going on for centuries.

[michaelturtle1]

Continuing with Chainwhip's relentless effort to convert me to a Scotch drinker.. Enjoying HP18 and Glendronach 17!!

[ChainWhip]

Continuing with Chainwhip's relentless effort to convert me to a Scotch drinker.. Enjoying HP18 and Glendronach 17!!

:toast: Woohoo!!! Great pours those two...

[michaelturtle1]

:toast: Woohoo!!! Great pours those two...

the glendronach has very strong chocolate notes tonight, quite odd but tasty none the less