New Brand Website: The Olds

[Guy Debord]

Smknjoe-

Thread Drifting here.

(Full disclosure: I'm an art person so I am very close to all this.)

Steampunk is a fairly new science fiction sub-cultural style inspired by the industrial revolution, Futurism, and steam-powered machinery. Steampunk is an off-shoot of Cyberpunk from the 1980s.

Hipsters are people who live in slightly seedy working class urban neighborhoods on purpose (because of them, many neighborhoods become gentrified). They typically appropriate working class styles of the past (what's called pastiche). They love American novelty, music, art, and foods that no one else knows about. In Chicago, we have what I call the urban farmer aesthetic, the urban lumberjack, the urban biker/metalhead, the ironic nerd, the homeless anarchist aesthetic, the fake skateboarder aesthetic, and the vegan bike messenger aesthetic. The ideology of the hipster has become very disjointed, there is no longer a major ethos associated with hipsterdom because Urban Outfitters made all the clothing and styles accessible. Plus, no hipster will ever admit to being a hipster, it's a very dirty word for someone who views them self unique, different, and cool.

[smokinjoe]

Smknjoe-

Thread Drifting here.

(Full disclosure: I'm an art person so I am very close to all this.)

Steampunk is a fairly new science fiction sub-cultural style inspired by the industrial revolution, Futurism, and steam-powered machinery. Steampunk is an off-shoot of Cyberpunk from the 1980s.

Hipsters are people who live in slightly seedy working class urban neighborhoods on purpose (because of them, many neighborhoods become gentrified). They typically appropriate working class styles of the past (what's called pastiche). They love American novelty, music, art, and foods that no one else knows about. In Chicago, we have what I call the urban farmer aesthetic, the urban lumberjack, the urban biker/metalhead, the ironic nerd, the homeless anarchist aesthetic, the fake skateboarder aesthetic, and the vegan bike messenger aesthetic. The ideology of the hipster has become very disjointed, there is no longer a major ethos associated with hipsterdom because Urban Outfitters made all the clothing and styles accessible. Plus, no hipster will ever admit to being a hipster, it's a very dirty word for someone who views them self unique, different, and cool.

Ah! Role playing with costumes!! Can a 50 something who played the yuppie, collar-turned-up, Members Only jacket wearing look back in the '80's play?!?!? I betcha I still got those pinstriped Sergio Valenti jeans laying around somewheres...ahem size 28 waist unfortunately...

Or, will sell entire vintage wardrobe to urban 80's hipster!!

Back on topic, I wonder if there was an internal battle at Beam to drop/keep the garish orange label color of OGD with the recent label update? If anything though, it is eye-catching...

[squire]

If Beam insists on putting out low end products the best way to move them is sell cheap.

[mbroo5880i]

I don't now much about Old Crow or Old Overholt. Based on reviews, neither have interested me enough to try them. I really like OGD. I wouldn't call any of these "tired, old brands." But, in the scheme of today's flashy marketplace and high end whiskeys, they certainly are more yesterday than today in the typical consumer's eyes. I wonder about Beam's intent to reinvigorate these brands. I am starting to notice more OGD coming off the shelf and showing up in end of aisle displays. I actually know of one chain that is promoting it pretty heavily. I guess a rising tide helps raises all ships. I hope that this focus on marketing these brands doesn't result in an increase in price of OGD but I have to think that that is the intent...raise their profile and increase profits. I have to think that when we see Old Crow and Old Overholt as "sought after" brands that we are getting close to the bursting of the bubble.

[squire]

In their present form Crow, Taylor and Overholt are one night stands that may as well be cheap blends.

[393foureyedfox]

ive never had Crow or Taylor, but if their quality is anything like Overholt, then even free wouldnt be enough of an ad campaign to get me to buy it. I cant understand why they keep the label alive....just drop it and sell only the crappy JB rye instead.

I wasnt aware that OGD needed any marketing help, I thought it did just fine on its own. However, I know of no one who drinks the 80 proof OGD, so I think theyd be better off with just the BIB and the 114, especially after dropping the 86 proofer this year

[TunnelTiger]

+1, totally agree. I had an older freind that has long passed away he swore the OO @ 90 & 100 proof was the nectar of the gods but companies in general care nothing for us older folks. They take us for granted and figure if we don't like it so what.

Just like WT going to 81 bourbon and 81 rye trying to capture the vodka generation, jeeez!

[squire]

No they don't care about us and when the unsold stock piles up after we're gone they'll just redistill it into vodka.

[TunnelTiger]

That gave me a thought, I wonder if i can convince the wife to bury me with "five that are always in your rotation"?

[squire]

Best not to encourage wives to think about burying us.

[Brisko]

That gave me a thought, I wonder if i can convince the wife to bury me with "five that are always in your rotation"?

Best not to encourage wives to think about burying us.

No kidding, mine wouldn't need much encouragement.

[squire]

Teaching 'em how to handle a firearm is not a good idea either.

[cowdery]

I worked for one of Beam's agencies when they acquired "The Olds" (along with Old Taylor) in the National Distillers 'merger.' That was 26 years ago. At the time, they invested a little bit in Old Grand-Dad (I worked on that business) but nothing in Old Taylor, Old Crow, and Old Overholt. A few years ago, they introduced Old Crow Reserve, and spent a little money at that time. That's just about all the money they've spent on those three brands in 26 years.

Many companies have brands like that. Heaven Hill and Sazerac have a portfolio full of them. But if you're looking for brands that were once big and are now also-rans, it would be hard to beat Beam's three 'Olds.' Old Crow was for many years the best selling bourbon in America, Old Grand-Dad was the best-selling premium bourbon, and Old Overholt was the best selling rye. All three have 19th century roots. All three have real histories, though not exactly like the web site tells them.

The problem with brands like them is moving the needle. You spend 0 and they sell X. If you spend Y promoting them, can you get a return of at least X + Y + 1?

Before you say "yes," think about the barriers. Virtually all of X comes from people who have been drinking the brand for years, decades probably. They'll probably drink it until they die (which won't be long) but they won't drink more of it than they do now no matter what you do. That means you have to find new drinkers. You won't find them in the demographic where the current drinkers are because old people don't adopt new brands. You have to go young. But what kind of young person wants to drink something that's the antithesis of 'now'? And if such a person exists, how do you reach him or her without spending very much money?

Remember, in the equation above, X is pretty-much fixed. It's Y you have to work with and the smaller Y is, the better chance you have of achieving X + Y + 1.

This simple math is why Beam has spent so little on those three brands in the last 26 years. What's different? The bourbon boom is different. Does that mean people are interested in out-dated brands. Not necessarily, but it does mean anything is possible. But you can bet that up in Deerfield they're watching the needle.

Edited November 6, 2013 by cowdery

[oke&coke]

Thanks Chuck, that explanation puts things into perspective. The only problem is with that business model it would only be a matter of time before the brand goes away. Perhaps the bean counters won't lose much sleep over some labels going away I guess. They would just reinvent the profile in a new, hipper, more expensive bottle for the young crowd.

[cowdery]

I had a brand manager (not at Beam) say to me about a legacy product, "our job is to make sure it's profitable until the day it dies." If it dies, it dies, but what you lose isn't so much the product (i.e., sales) as it is the brand equity, if there's any left. I think that's what Beam is trying to discover with this. Do these brands have any brand equity that's worth preserving?

[oke&coke]

That is actually what I had in mind I just couldn't put it into words. Thanks for that insight again Chuck. I for one hope they find some. Its nice to have a brand with an honest history not one made up about shining or shaky connections to dead presidents.

[squire]

Grand Dad is good stuff but the best thing I can say for the others is they're cheap.

[mosugoji64]

I think Sazerac has shown that there is life in the Taylor brand. Let's hope Beam decides to reinvigorate the others.

[squire]

Let's just hope they keep the price down, if I'm forced to drink swill I insist it be cheap swill.

[393foureyedfox]

i dont like that they grouped OGD with the other 'olds'. it, actually, is still WELL liked

[oke&coke]

Among us afficianodos yes but how about the general public?

[TunnelTiger]

Teaching 'em how to handle a firearm is not a good idea either.

Good advice but way too late. When we were young she asked, I taught, and now she's a much better shot than me. That's why I always answer yes and say "I'm sorry" first thing every morning.

[hn4bourbon]

Among us afficianodos yes but how about the general public?

Well, I know for a fact that many sales reps of stores in my area describe the OGD BiBs as low grade stuff not worth drinking. That's probably how the general public will view it if that's what it has been described as. We know better.

[jaycamm]

Overholt has gained a large following on the cocktail circuit.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[squire]

All any of them need is the right word in the right place to create buzz. Overholt could be the next darling of the LA bartenders.