Of Micros and Men

[squire]

I understand the need for Micros to make white goods and other products that can be sold young, bills come due every month, yet some of them seem determined to do it right by aged goods and are going forward by taking a step back and in effect recreating classic styles of traditional Bourbon/Rye standards. Any thoughts?

[DrBob]

Well some anecdotal stuff from New Mexico. KGB is our only whiskey distiller and they started in 2009. they make a lot of their operating cash from white whiskey, vodka, absinthe, gin, etc. They do small batches of about 100 gallons, so can pretty much do two barrels at a time. Like many start ups they will source some whiskey so that they can get a toehold in the bourbon and rye market.

Currently I have a barrel select from a local spirit shop of their "Taos Lightning" straight bourbon, they also have a rye. This particular bourbon is LDI distilled, aged 5 years, but with a slight twist, the last 4 years its been aged in New Mexico at 7000' elevation in a semi open rack house. Its a decent enough bourbon, and I look forward to next year when the first batches of their own 4 year old whiskeys start to be released.

I personally don't mind the LDI sourcing by some of the start-ups, but I don't like it when they claim it as their own make...

[Gillman]

Thanks for setting up this thread. My views, summarized:

1) I would not pump up white dog or whiskeys tasting largely of that - it is not the way to go IMO in the long run, I don't think people will buy them past a certain point of fashion.

2) I have no issue at all with sourcing fully-aged product until you can make your own, but I agree it is best to be as frank as you are able with the market.

3) I have no problem with even a permanent, non-distilling producer plan - sourcing and mingling can be creative. But be frank about it and I think in the long run this will help the NDPs.

4) Experimenting is fine but traditional bourbon and rye evolved over a long period - don't throw out baby with the bathwater.

Gary

[squire]

I wish the NDPs would look to mingling, lots of opportunity there. Or blending for that matter, there's no shortage of three year old used cask seasoned base whisky in Canada. Good in, good out and no tying up capital in distilling equipment.

[B.B. Babington]

It is possible to produce good, interesting white dogs. For consumers that don't mind "bite" these options become broader.

Micros do produce interesting, and sometimes novel flavors, and I think they are good for the industry as a whole.

My complaint with micros is that most of them have a silly notion that they are going to make money without paying their dues. They produce a product that's only worth maybe $15-20, at best, compared to other products on the shelf but expect people to pay $40-50. I've been more of a sucker in the past and would ante up for the experiment, but years of doing this has made me more selective; just because it's new on the shelf doesn't mean I'll buy it.

[squire]

Or that it's any good. I wonder why don't they just buy ready made quality white stuff from MGP, seems like they could buy it cheaper than make it. Of course some finishing in seasoned casks or filtering to smooth it up a bit would make something different.

[wadewood]

Or that it's any good. I wonder why don't they just buy ready made quality white stuff from MGP, seems like they could buy it cheaper than make it.

with as much deception that many micros employ in their business plan, what makes you think this isn't being done?

[squire]

I have no doubt that some do.

[Paddy]

Not a micro by definition, but I'm interested to see what will come of the Pearce Lyons' venture, Town Branch Distillery, in Lexington. Given it will take some time, but his track record reflects that once he decides to do something it is head on, first class, with no expense spared.

He has the background and knowledge (once worked for Irish Distillers) and in a very short period of time has been added to the KY bourbon trail. If I was a betting man, I would be willing put some money on him to do something really special... 'cause I don't even think he's hit his stride yet.

[DrBob]

I bought a bottle of town branch and found it drinkable. My notes:

[TABLE=width: 1026]

[TR]

[TD]Nose[/TD]

[TD]Vanilla, slight cinnamon[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Taste[/TD]

[TD]Sweet up front, a slight rye hit at mid tongue, hint of hot spices like cinnamon, a bit of tofeee.[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Finish [/TD]

[TD]Short, a bit of a lingering rye tingle, unremarkable[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Comments [/TD]

[TD]This is not a bad whiskey, but at 80 proof there just isnt enough left to play with, its fairly thin and watery, just a very diluted whiskey. [/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD] [/TD]

[TD] I think this could be quite a nice pour if it was closer to barrel strength. Give it a 6.5/10, nice re-purposable bottle.[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

[Paddy]

I bought a bottle of town branch and found it drinkable. My notes:

[TABLE=width: 1026]

[TR]

[TD]Nose[/TD]

[TD]Vanilla, slight cinnamon[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Taste[/TD]

[TD]Sweet up front, a slight rye hit at mid tongue, hint of hot spices like cinnamon, a bit of tofeee.[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Finish [/TD]

[TD]Short, a bit of a lingering rye tingle, unremarkable[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Comments [/TD]

[TD]This is not a bad whiskey, but at 80 proof there just isnt enough left to play with, its fairly thin and watery, just a very diluted whiskey. [/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD] [/TD]

[TD] I think this could be quite a nice pour if it was closer to barrel strength. Give it a 6.5/10, nice re-purposable bottle.[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

Thank you for the great notes! My hope is that he will someday develop this into another great distillery with multiple offerings, both blended and single barrels. I'm also hoping that his background (and forward thinking) will lead him to develop a hybrid American/scotch influenced whiskey unlike anything currently on the market. For now, I'm content to bide my time and wait...

[SmoothAmbler]

I wish the NDPs would look to mingling, lots of opportunity there. Or blending for that matter, there's no shortage of three year old used cask seasoned base whisky in Canada. Good in, good out and no tying up capital in distilling equipment.

I think there's real promise in these statements. Some small folks will eventually learn that blending is a good way to get started.

[squire]

Care to lead the way SA, be first among peers?

[SmoothAmbler]

We did some of that with VOS, but it was more of a blend of different age barrels to find the flavor profiles we desired. It took some real effort. We spent about 4 months working on that project. Was it as hard as distilling our own stuff and waiting for some of it to be 19 years old? No, but it certainly was a task that required skill.

We will do that more and more as our own product becomes more mature. I'm not afraid to mingle our stuff with LDI/MGPI juice if that's what makes a better product. Of course, it would be a "Blend of Straight Bourbons" since they are made in different states. I'm of the opinion, while being very young in this business, that better whiskey can be made through mingling. Of course, that leaves open all sorts of other issues like consistency, but I believe it works. We will experiment with more of that along the way.

I'd also like to be the first craft guy to blend whiskies from other craft distillers. But the other guys I've spoken to aren't too keen on that yet.

As you might be able to tell, I love the art of blending/mingling/marrying. It excites me as much as distilling.

[squire]

I'm of the opinion, while being very young in this business, that better whiskey can be made through mingling.

I'm of the opinion you are exactly correct.

[Yeti]

I love the art of blending/mingling/marrying. It excites me as much as distilling.

Optimally all roads leading to the same destination: exceptional whiskey.

High West and Compass Box are doing a pretty bang up job with with all the different types of blending/marrying/mingling/finishing. There is science and art in every phase of production, but the guiding hand of the final mix is often overlooked

[squire]

Blending is an art and not all men are artists.

[Tony Santana]

Bottles of sourced whiskey sometimes get a bad rep on these boards, and blending almost seems like a dirty word (unless, of course, its the "SB blend"), but in my admittedly somewhat limited experience with both Smooth Ambler and High West, they get huge thumbs up from me.

[squire]

I have absolutely no issue with sourced whisky, just with people who pretend it's their own and jack up the price.

[SmoothAmbler]

I have absolutely no issue with sourced whisky, just with people who pretend it's their own and jack up the price.

[sutton]

This seems to be unique to the American whiskey scene - the Scots have no problem with it, in fact, from the Independents to bottlings like Blue Hanger they seem to always disclose the source. To a non-enthusiast they won't even read the small print on the back label, they'll buy it if they like it. And to the enthusiast, we lap the information up. Where is the downside for either producer or blender?

[squire]

None that I can see Mark. Unless they're trying to sell repackaged bulk goods for $49.95 a bottle.

[DrBob]

Bottles of sourced whiskey sometimes get a bad rep on these boards, and blending almost seems like a dirty word (unless, of course, its the "SB blend"), but in my admittedly somewhat limited experience with both Smooth Ambler and High West, they get huge thumbs up from me.

[DrBob]

None that I can see Mark. Unless they're trying to sell repackaged bulk goods for $49.95 a bottle.

[mosugoji64]

I can understand nondisclosure from the distillery point of view. They have no control over what the NDP does with the whiskey and if the bottling is crap, the distillery won't want their name on it. Plus, it probably wasn't their best whiskey, anyway.