Of Pot Stills and Poltroons

[squire]

We've all seen these micro/NDP websites where they proudly show a picture of their still (sometimes just a paste from a page in a manufacturer's catalog) which is an artisanal pot with a rectifying column on top that was originally designed to make eau de vie. What strikes me is the size, even my rudimentary math skills can figure out that thing's not big enough to support a brand already in national distribution.

Can you make good Bourbon in a such a still? Well of course you can, J. W. Dant made whisky with a steam pipe in a hollow log until he could afford a proper still. Todd Leupold and other craftsmen around the country today are using the labor intensive pot still to great effect but that's not what I'm talking about.

My point is about market driven producers pushing the image of a small, hand crafted operation.

My question is do we really care what sort of still they claim to use, does the size and type matter to anyone here?

[TunnelTiger]

Honesty, taste, and price in that order.

[squire]

Good taste at a good price is a good rule.

[jonhalter]

So the question is, does size matter?

[squire]

If it does why advertize small.

[jonhalter]

so she isnt too disappointed.

[squire]

Mine drinks wine.

[393foureyedfox]

Mine drinks wine.

[squire]

Compromise beats lying cause you don't have to remember what you said.

[jonnyd]

Another wise word from Squire! Keep 'em coming.

[393foureyedfox]

Compromise beats lying cause you don't have to remember what you said.

[B.B. Babington]

Sorry to get off topic but size doesn't matter, it's what you do with it.

The biggest diff between large and small stills is volume. Distillation column length and how one handles the distillation head to control heads and tails of distillate is what's most important. Technique and experience plays into this to control quality.

Wait, what are we talking about?

[mbroo5880i]

I don't think this applies to micros/NDP's only. Even the big boys like Jim Beam and WT want you to think their products are handcrafted.

[tanstaafl2]

So are we saying they are both liars and cowards? I think of a poltroon (the classic manifestation being Sir Harry Paget Flashman VC KCB KCIE of course!) as a coward more so than a liar. Of course they can be liars as well but that isn't a requirement.

[squire]

Who rose to the rank of Brigadier General Sir Harry Flashman in the same ironic comedic sense that some third rate politicians have become presidents and prime ministers.

[tanstaafl2]

Who rose to the rank of Brigadier General Sir Harry Flashman in the same ironic comedic sense that some third rate politicians have become presidents and prime ministers.

Indeed he did! Although Flashman occasionally did something useful, even if he hadn't intended to. Can't say as much for most politicians, third rate or otherwise.

[Gillman]

I care about distilling out proof, not the kind of kit used to fractionate the alcohol. A wide variety of apparatus was used historically, it is all a question of scale and efficiency, nothing more. People use all kinds of images to sell their wares and selling is an honourable and necessary job without which we would have none of the fine products offered for our delectation here. IIRC, a Willett bourbon issued a few years ago has an image of a pot still on the label although that part of the process was not unique (a steam column was probably involved) and everyone in the business amongst the old-established producers uses them. You could read the image as mimicking the bottle shape, but again why the shape? Because the producer thought, I assume, it lent a note of tradition. In fact, that bourbon was distilled out under 160 proof in equipment which mimics, for that purpose, the old double pot stills. Even sans doubler a column can be adapted to function to all intents and purposes like a pot still, maybe better (that 159 proof bourbon from the Versailles pots - three of them no less - is pretty feisty, even at 5-6 years old, which is why, I believe, WR is mingled with column still make). I am good with it and the still stuff for those who favour those images is selling the sizzle with the steak, an age-old tradition in American, or any nation's, business. The old Michter (in Pennsylvania) did the same thing, they spoke of a pot still whiskey too even though it seems they used a column and doubler for their typical products.

The NDPs who use similar imagery to sell bourbon or rye are doing nothing new but anyway what they are saying again is we make a product in the tradition of the pre-column still whisky-makers, and they do. They are saying in a marketing fashion that we aren't GNS makers.

Now, if some of them show a pot still on the label or in ad copy and distill out at over 160 proof - if they are selling something other than bourbon or rye - well then I would express a personal preference that they not do that, but if some do, it doesn't exercise me greatly. A pot still is an image of distillation, it evokes hard liquor, whiskey or other. We remember it from cartoons as kids, the moonshiner spoofs and all that.

Anyone who wants to know in detail how a product is made can do research and usually find out or get pretty close. And if you can't, ask the producer. If he won't tell you, don't buy it if that is your wont.

Gary

Edited December 1, 2013 by Gillman

[squire]

Gary, you are so polite, one of the things I appreciate about your posts.

I don't assume the producer of Willet Pot Still Reserve thought the shape of the bottle lent a note of tradition. In fact I believe it was an intentional misrepresentation on their part to make customers believe the whisky in the bottle was actually made in the small pot still so prominently displayed on their web site. It wasn't.

[Gillman]

They are good marketers, that's all it is in my view. We here (at SB) have a level of understanding of still technology that is way beyond what the average buyer understands, it is easy to forget that. In fact, while I don't include Willett's in this, many here and you not least Squire surely understand how stills work and the subtleties of the standards of identity far better than many NDPs.

I am sure the average buyer with a mild interest in whiskey or spirits in general looks at the antique copper pot stills or the term itself in the most general way, it is a shorthand for him for liquor and many producers appeal to that understanding lurking half-unconscious in the folk memory. It is like the barrel with three x's marked on it: booze! We here tend to read way more into it than is done by the general market (IMO).

It is an old tradition in whiskey-making - and in business as I said - to sell the sizzle with the steak anyway, it is "puffery", permitted exaggeration.

Gary

Edited December 1, 2013 by Gillman

[WhiskyRI]

If a distiller shows a picture of a still - I as a consumer expect that picture to be of the still on which they make their spirit - be it rye, bourbon, wheat or malt, etc, whisky. So if a brand is buying new make from Indiana I better not see a picture of Vendome's finest Copper Pot Still on their website. After that taste and cost are what matters to me. I've tasted really good spirit from a tiny little pot still with a rectifier and I've tasted really bad spirit off of massive column stills and massive pot stills.

At a certain point I care because if a craftsman who makes excellent whisky isn't doing it efficiently enough, then they won't be in business for very long. Marketing is marketing - I think it is more effective with at least a grain of truth, preferably more than one or two grains. That being said there have been all too many successful marketing campaigns and brands that have built their business on double-speak, myths, fairy tales and plain bald-faced lies. I'd like to think those tactics are becoming less effective with the much easier access to information but I'm afraid that is just wishful thinking.

[Gillman]

Most marketing is designed surely to appeal to the average buyer, not the tiny percentage who have a specialist knowledge of the subject. And therefore there is a "romance" element built into it (frequently). I have read whiskey ads and labels through this pastime stretching back to the late 1800's and it is always the same, everyone markets the old, time-honoured whiskey, the one grandfather drank, everyone does this around the world using all kinds of imagery. It's all based on old solid gleaming metal pieces that evoke old-time craftsmanship, or old this or that. So I too don't believe any of this is going away any time soon while wishing as you do (last poster) for maximum detail and accuracy. I can see both sides of the issue in other words.

Gary

[squire]

I was reared by men who taught me there is only one version of the truth.

[Gillman]

So was I but in business marketing the situation is more nuanced, IMO, it just is.

Gary

[393foureyedfox]

I was reared by men who taught me there is only one version of the truth.

unfortunately, few people teach that anymore.

[squire]

Bless your heart Gary, you do look for the best in people don't you. I believe it unlikely a jury would buy the argument though, the defense that everybody is doing it doesn't work any better than the Nazi officers claiming they were just following orders.