Timelines & Stuff

[squire]

A new member asked today so I thought I'd start a new thread.

How about some timelines such as when tax stamps were phased out or when was the government health warning required, how to find the bottle manufacturing date, etc.

[GaryT]

Unfortunately all that was before I knew enough about bourbon to buy it But I'm positive others here know the info!

[B.B. Babington]

well, one of the first persons I'd ask would be squire. I think, maybe, companies started gearing up for warning labels when Strom Thurman started talking about this in late 1980's? but were absolutely mandated to have them on bottles manufactured or imported after Nov 18, 1989?

see: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title27/pdf/USCODE-2011-title27-chap8-subchapII-sec215.pdf

Edited December 21, 2013 by B.B. Babington

[B.B. Babington]

federal tax stamp went away July 1, 1985. Here's one citation of merit: http://corporate.findlaw.com/finance/liquor-laws-and-regulations-for-retail-dealers.html#CLOSURES

[squire]

I don't recall the year but clearly remember the day. I was driving Susan to her Dad's house for a Friday dinner party that would last the weekend. That's the way he entertained, guests stayed over, big house, lots of room, and she told me to stop at the local store.

Why? Because Mom's doing veal with a Riesling and I want a dry Moselle. One thing I've learned is don't get between the girl and her mother, no matter which side you choose you lose.

Was told to get a bottle of his favorite Bourbon (like he didn't already have a fully stocked wine cellar), but being Old South one always brings a gift for the host. So I reached for the Wild Turkey 101 and noticed the label said No. 8 instead of 8 years old. My first thought was f**k me, what have they done? Next to it on the shelf was the standard 8 year old and they were the same price. Pointed this out to the guys at the counter, (good guys, local folks) and no, they hadn't noticed the change but were so embarrassed they offered a bottle of wine on the house for the dinner. Of course we appreciated but declined the offer.

Upon arrival handed the old gent the bottle and related what I'd discovered. He poured us both a drink and while examining the label spoke words I shall never forget.

"Well then, this brand has lost my trade".

[393foureyedfox]

I don't recall the year but clearly remember the day. I was driving Susan to her Dad's house for a Friday dinner party that would last the weekend. That's the way he entertained, guests stayed over, big house, lots of room, and she told me to stop at the local store.

Why? Because Mom's doing veal with a Riesling and I want a dry Moselle. One thing I've learned is don't get between the girl and her mother, no matter which side you choose you lose.

Was told to get a bottle of his favorite Bourbon (like he didn't already have a fully stocked wine cellar), but being Old South one always brings a gift for the host. So I reached for the Wild Turkey 101 and noticed the label said No. 8 instead of 8 years old. My first thought was f**k me, what have they done? Next to it on the shelf was the standard 8 year old and they were the same price. Pointed this out to the guys at the counter, (good guys, local folks) and no, they hadn't noticed the change but were so embarrassed they offered a bottle of wine on the house for the dinner. Of course we appreciated but declined the offer.

Upon arrival handed the old gent the bottle and related what I'd discovered. He poured us both a drink and while examining the label spoke words I shall never forget.

"Well then, this brand has lost my trade".

[Restaurant man]

Farewell Barton. Our paths will meet no more?

[squire]

Screw them . . . and the horse they rode in on.

[393foureyedfox]

Screw them . . . and the horse they rode in on.

[squire]

Yes, it was age stated at 8 years old but the whisky in the mix was older. Even 6 year Old Taylor had 10-12 year stuff in the vat.

I've put up with changes over the years but some recent changes are such that up which I will not put.

[oke&coke]

That is a funny story squire. Seems as if you had some great mentors.

[squire]

I've had some moments. I've known fellows who were drinking Jim Beam back when Jim Beam was making it.

[393foureyedfox]

I take it then, Squire, that when OGD BIB went NAS, it wasn't under such shady pretenses as Barton has just done...

has the flavor noticable changed since it went NAS?

and about when was that?

[squire]

The paradigm shift for OGD wasn't an age statement it was the change from National to Beam distilling. To their credit Beam was able to keep the OGD character intact and the profile largely unchanged so the slight differences are such that only we would notice.

[B.B. Babington]

The paradigm shift for OGD wasn't an age statement it was the change from National to Beam distilling. To their credit Beam was able to keep the OGD character intact and the profile largely unchanged so the slight differences are such that only we would notice.

brings up another timeline. Nov 7, 1996 HH lost large distillery and warehouse. To many people, some of the post-fire products taste nearly identical to pre-fire, but if ya try pre-fire to post-fire side-by-side comparisons, the differences become more apparent. And so, we now see the $$ increase for older Elijah.

[squire]

Some thoughts on dating dustys:

1. The bottle itself often (not always) had a two digit number embossed on the bottom (example: 82 means the bottle was manufactured in 1982) so the contents would have been bottled on or after the year the bottle was made.

2. Tax stamps were required up until July 1, 1985, and their removal required some other form of tamper free proof so we can date the plastic capsule closures from then onward.

3. The words "Federal Law prevents sale or reuse of this bottle", were required from 1934 to 1964.

4. If it doesn't have a UPC code it's from before mid 80s.

5. A green "Bottled in Bond" tax stamp dates it to before 1982.

6. Metric sizes were phased in in the late 1970s and up through the early 80s bottles were often shown in both metric and ounces. Half pints, pints, 4/5 quart, quarts and gallons would have been bottled before 1979.

7. The government health warning was required after November, 1989.

For instance, Beam bought Old Crow, Old Taylor and Old Grand Dad in 1987 along with barreled stock to support the brands so any of these brands without a health warning (89) would probably contain UD whisky rather than Beam stock.

[tmckenzie]

Interesting thread. Good story squire. Talking about OGD I was told recently by folks who know such things that Beam has the original OGD still setup. And that is is run on that still.

[squire]

I hadn't heard that Tom but certainly hope it's true. Apparently in 1987 someone at Beam went at length to preserve Old Grand Dad.

[p_elliott]

Don't remember the year it changed but in Iowa prior to the 5 cent deposit on bottles bars had to break the empty liquor bottles.

Edited December 24, 2013 by p_elliott