Gas in My Glass

[sailor22]

Because many dusties, but certainly not all, have a similar very subtle flat wet cardboard note that you have to wonder if thats a characteristic of much of the Bourbon from back in the day or if it a result of a reaction facilitated by an imperfect seal. The fact that it only affects some of the bottles in a case of Bourbon bottled from the same era points to something happening to the whiskey over time.

Pretty confident that Bourbon can and does change over time in a seemingly sealed bottle. But I'm not sure it always does.

[squire]

I definitely maybe agree with 'ya.

[smokinjoe]

Question for anyone who knows...When they fill bottles, do they gas flush them first, right before filling? Also, are the dispensing heads/nipples/whatever-they're called tightly sealed to the top of the empty bottle before pouring in the whiskey?

I should really pay more attention at these tours, instead of wondering what I'm going to buy in the giftshop...:crazy:

[Flyfish]

On a tour at BT, my wife was invited to sit in on the bottling line. The process was simple: Fill the bottle; shove in the cork; slap on the label. There was no gas in the last step. Only an inch or so of head space so it is not likely to be an issue.

[squire]

The few times I paid attention there didn't seem to be any preparation other than making sure the bottles were straight and the line moved efficiently.

[smokinjoe]

Because many dusties, but certainly not all, have a similar very subtle flat wet cardboard note that you have to wonder if thats a characteristic of much of the Bourbon from back in the day or if it a result of a reaction facilitated by an imperfect seal. The fact that it only affects some of the bottles in a case of Bourbon bottled from the same era points to something happening to the whiskey over time.

Pretty confident that Bourbon can and does change over time in a seemingly sealed bottle. But I'm not sure it always does.

I've been thinking about your post, Steve, and I think you've put me on a path to Truth. Can a bourbon change in a bottle? Yes, I agree. But the change is always for the worse. Due to a contaminant, imperfect seal, poor storage conditions, etc. But, I reject the concept of "bottle aging"...specifically as described in improving the whiskey that went into the bottle originally. In short, it's not aging at all. Just, getting funked out for some reason.

[smknjoe]

I've been thinking about your post, Steve, and I think you've put me on a path to Truth. Can a bourbon change in a bottle? Yes, I agree. But the change is always for the worse. Due to a contaminant, imperfect seal, poor storage conditions, etc. But, I reject the concept of "bottle aging"...specifically as described in improving the whiskey that went into the bottle originally. In short, it's not aging at all. Just, getting funked out for some reason.

That's my perception as well, Joe.

[TheNovaMan]

So barrel aging is wonderful, but when the bourbon is diluted to bottle strength, inadvertently oxygenated, and sealed in glass instead of wood, only bad chemical reactions take place? :skep:

[smknjoe]

No, some pretty nasty bourbon comes out of the barrel too.

[TheNovaMan]

OK, but I suspect the occasional crummy barrel is the exception more than the rule.

[squire]

Pete I think it's the bubbles in Diet Coke that do the most damage.

[TheNovaMan]

That made me LOL because my best friend's favorite mixed drink is Bacardi and Diet Coke!

[smknjoe]

There is just such a small amount of gases being introduced when the bottle is kept sealed and even after it's opened for a pour and then immediately re-sealed that I don't think there is much oxidation happening.

Get two bottles of the same bourbon and leave one sealed and open the other and leave the top off. Which one(s) change and which stay the same and why?

Get two bottles of the same bourbon and leave one sealed and open the other but only for 5 seconds and then reseal it. Which one(s) changes and which stay the same and why?

...with the assumption they are all from the same production run and have acceptably airtight seals available.

[squire]

Or try this sequence:

1. open

2. pour

3. drink

4. repeat

[MyOldKyDram]

I don't believe you so imma try it for myself.

[TheNovaMan]

Or try this sequence:

1. open

2. pour

3. drink

4. repeat

[smokinjoe]

So barrel aging is wonderful, but when the bourbon is diluted to bottle strength, inadvertently oxygenated, and sealed in glass instead of wood, only bad chemical reactions take place? :skep:

Bad chemical reactions (if that's what they are) "Due to a contaminant, imperfect seal, poor storage conditions." Otherwise, if things are done properly, what goes in...comes out.

Sorry, I just don't buy in to the idea of a "bottle aging" phenomena as a way to, or the reason for, a better bourbon.

[smknjoe]

...and glass in inert. Wood is not.

[393foureyedfox]

as far as how the bourbon is stored in unopened bottles, do you guys think there is any effect on unopened bottles being kept in a dark non-climate controlled garage? The temp may vary by 80 degrees over the course of a year, but since some of us keep our bourbon in the freezer anyway....

[TheNovaMan]

...and glass in inert. Wood is not.

That was part of my point - after some time, more aging in wood just brings out undesirable tannins, which doesn't happen with glass.

[smokinjoe]

...after some time, more aging in wood just brings out undesirable tannins, which doesn't happen with glass.

I don't think there is much to argue with this statement...

[oke&coke]

Because many dusties, but certainly not all, have a similar very subtle flat wet cardboard note that you have to wonder if thats a characteristic of much of the Bourbon from back in the day or if it a result of a reaction facilitated by an imperfect seal. The fact that it only affects some of the bottles in a case of Bourbon bottled from the same era points to something happening to the whiskey over time.

Pretty confident that Bourbon can and does change over time in a seemingly sealed bottle. But I'm not sure it always does.

This post made me remember something. When distilling, one sign that you are getting into the tails of the run is a wet cardboard smell to the distillate. As squire pointed out in other posts, distilleries used to have a lower off the still proof. If this is true, that would mean they went deeper into the tails before making the cut. So this wouldn't be a barrel or time issue.

[squire]

Yes, but with continuous column distillation there are no heads or tails as you would get with a pot still. I think Sailor put his finger on the problem, an imperfect seal which lets in microscopic airborne pollutants which eventually alter the contents. Stable as it is finished whisky is not immune to damage.