NAS-- but how old?

[black mamba]

Someone else has recently started a thread on age stated bourbons, but I want to go the other direction. Of those common but well thought of bourbons we all drink, just how much barrel age do they have? Ones I'm specifically interested in are OGD BIB and 114, 4R SmB and YL, and OFS BIB. In particular, the OFS BIB tastes at least 8 yo and could even be 10 by my palate. Please give the source of your info, and how sure you are it is authoritative. Thanks much.

[callmeox]

If there were authoritative sources, they would put it on the bottle as an age statement.

Anything else is just conjecture.

[squire]

If it were authoritative today it may not be exactly the same tomorrow. NAS means flexibility and if the vatting could use a few barrels of 14 year old stuff to add a bit of oak or some 4-5 year olds for freshness then they can while maintaining the profile. I'm in favor of NAS and think far too much is made of age alone.

[jonnyd]

As long as the NAS keeps to the profile flavor of the AS I don't care.

[393foureyedfox]

I'm in favor of NAS and think far too much is made of age alone.

but.....you were so pissed at Barton at few weeks ago for going NAS, was it just because of the deceptive nature of HOW they went NAS?

[393foureyedfox]

As long as the NAS keeps to the profile flavor of the AS I don't care.

the problem though, as I see it, is that the value lines that are/were age stated and we loved so much, will change over time as the better stuff shifts to higher price point bourbons. Incrementally, they will change it

[T Comp]

In particular, the OFS BIB tastes at least 8 yo and could even be 10 by my palate. Please give the source of your info, and how sure you are it is authoritative. Thanks much.

I'll presume Old Forester Signature Mamba, which is no longer BIB. On pricing alone, no way is it going to be even 8 year. The most recent non BIB bottling, though not doggy, has marginal wood/barrel notes and I'd suggest way closer to 4 year than 8. If you are meaning the dusty glut era ones from DSP 414, then you might be closer to 8.

[jonnyd]

the problem though, as I see it, is that the value lines that are/were age stated and we loved so much, will change over time as the better stuff shifts to higher price point bourbons. Incrementally, they will change it

I cannot disagree with that logic. But hopefully they'll look out for the brand. Maybe too much to hope for, but we'll see won't we.

[jonnyd]

I'm with Squire though, I don't like feeling like Barton or anyone else is trying to pull a fast one on us by keeping the number with no real meaning as to the age.

[squire]

Moving from age stated to no age statement is a negative from our perspective, in fact I do not know of any circumstance over the years I have watched this happen time and again when it turned out to be a positive.

I do not fault Barton for making a business decision, rather the way that decision was implemented using a deceptive label that implied age. I expect they will find customers for their evolving product but I refuse to be a lab rat at my own expense for their experiment.

[JPBoston]

but.....you were so pissed at Barton at few weeks ago for going NAS, was it just because of the deceptive nature of HOW they went NAS?

Haha yeah... looked like a distillery rep hacked into Squire's account there.

Careful folks, they're infiltrating our ranks!!

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[mbroo5880i]

I have read a few places that FRSB is typically in the 7 to 8 year range. I looked on their website and notice that they reference this age range for private barrel selections of OBSV that will be bottled at 100 proof. I would think that this age range would be consistent for standard selections as well since they are trying to achieve a specific profile. Of course, with NAS, they have a lot of flexibility.

[jeffrey r]

I have read a few places that FRSB is typically in the 7 to 8 year range. I looked on their website and notice that they reference this age range for private barrel selections of OBSV that will be bottled at 100 proof. I would think that this age range would be consistent for standard selections as well since they are trying to achieve a specific profile. Of course, with NAS, they have a lot of flexibility.

I had requested barrel info from FR for two different barrels of stock FRSB bottles. They were standard FRSB bottles, but were from gift packs and very tasty barrels. Their response was "nearly 9 years of aging".

[black mamba]

At the distillery tour two summers ago, BT said their flagship bourbon was "around 8 yo." As the OFS 100 (not bonded, my bad!) is in direct competition with BT and at the same price point, it's not unreasonable to expect it to be around 8 yo. Maybe I do have a glut batch, but it is definitely woody (more like EC12 than BT), and very smooth and "dense."

I'd be surprised if the 4RSmB would be as old as their 1B, but maybe around 6 yo. The YL I have no idea about, probably more like 4-5.

Squire, any ideas about the age of OGD?

Edited January 6, 2014 by black mamba

[squire]

I would guess 6-8 years now for the BIB and the 114 a little older, up to 10 in the mix.

[Brisko]

At the distillery tour two summers ago, BT said their flagship bourbon was "around 8 yo." As the OFS 100 (not bonded, my bad!) is in direct competition with BT and at the same price point, it's not unreasonable to expect it to be around 8 yo. Maybe I do have a glut batch, but it is definitely woody (more like EC12 than BT), and very smooth and "dense."

I'd be surprised if the 4RSmB would be as old as their 1B, but maybe around 6 yo. The YL I have no idea about, probably more like 4-5.

I vaguely recall that at one time BT was claimed to be "around 9 yo." I'd believe 8 or less based on current samples.

In conversation with Jim Rutledge he said that the Single barrels were generally in the 8-9 year range and the small batch was 7-8. I don't remember what he said for the YL exactly but I believe it was older than I anticipated (maybe 6?).

[squire]

Harlen has commented the standard BT is in the 7-8 range as well. It would seem the house flagship brands are rather similar in age.

[Jackinbox]

I don't really worry about age statements when it comes to FR. I trust Jim Rutledge when he says they are going for the best flavor profile. When it comes to WT, I tend to think it's more about the bottom line.

[black mamba]

I have to agree about Rutledge, Jack, as I've never been disappointed in any 4R product, and when you consider the price on the lower end offerings, they're off the charts.

[Brisko]

Everybody says they pick for flavor profile, not age, but Four Roses actual seems to take it seriously.

[smokinjoe]

Everybody says they pick for flavor profile, not age, but Four Roses actual seems to take it seriously.

Yes, today. But, they're blowing through capacity just like the others. They've just had the good fortune to have miniscule US market penetration just a few short years ago, and could grow their business with ease and with no reservations. The boom will catch up with them, just like the others. Also, I think I've read that Kirin is ready to start pocketing the return on the massive investment they've put into the distillery and it's brands. Judgement Day is coming for Four Roses, too. Let's all hope they handle it well.