Out of Many . . . One.

[squire]

The concept of a single barrel Bourbon is easy to grasp. A single barrel is dumped, bottled and when empty another barrel is dumped and so on until the run is finished. So although there may be many bottles each one of them came from a single barrel and not a batch of barrels, or do they?

There's no law that says a distiller cannot dump, say, 20 barrels, mingle the contents, rebarrel the whisky to age again for 3-6 months (Remember Jacob's Well?) and bottle the lot one barrel at a time. This would in fact be single barrel bottlings though certainly not what we think that term means.

What about topping up? Barrels suffer evaporation as they age and there's no law that says a distiller can't take 8 year old whisky still in the barrel, fill up the evaporated space in them with 4 year old whisky, let them mingle for a few months and barrel the lot as single barrel expressions. It may in fact be a better whisky for that with the younger stuff adding a bit of freshness to the older stock.

Under either scenario the finished product can be labeled single barrel. What do you guys think?

[393foureyedfox]

I think you're about to start mayhem!

[TunnelTiger]

I think I am going to pay more attention to taste, availability, and value going forward and less on labels be it aged stated, NAS, Single barrel, Small batch, NDP, or my favorite Single Barrel Small Batch.

[squire]

T Tiger I agree completely.

[mbroo5880i]

I think Woodford already does this.

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?20446-Woodford-Reserve-Double-Oak-Single-Barrel-!

[DrBob]

What about topping up? Barrels suffer evaporation as they age and there's no law that says a distiller can't take 8 year old whisky still in the barrel, fill up the evaporated space in them with 4 year old whisky, let them mingle for a few months and barrel the lot as single barrel expressions. It may in fact be a better whisky for that with the younger stuff adding a bit of freshness to the older stock.

If they top up, it must change the age of the whiskey for purpose of age statements? Of course there are plenty of NAS single barrel whiskeys out there... I guess it wouldn't be too surprising if people were using modified solera techniques, and as TunnelTiger said, if the profile is easier to match maybe it isn't a bad thing?

As an enthusiast I want all the information possible, though I suppose some of this type of information could fall under "trade secrets".

Maybe on topic...

I have always wondered how WTRB for the last ten years has always had the same proof. Maybe they do something similar to this, after all they claim its a blend of 6 8 and 12 year old whiskeys, maybe they are topping up older barrels with the 6 year stuff to match profile and proof?

[squire]

I think Woodford is not alone in this.

[nd2005]

The concept of a single barrel Bourbon is easy to grasp. A single barrel is dumped, bottled and when empty another barrel is dumped and so on until the run is finished. So although there may be many bottles each one of them came from a single barrel and not a batch of barrels, or do they?

There's no law that says a distiller cannot dump, say, 20 barrels, mingle the contents, rebarrel the whisky to age again for 3-6 months (Remember Jacob's Well?) and bottle the lot one barrel at a time. This would in fact be single barrel bottlings though certainly not what we think that term means.

What about topping up? Barrels suffer evaporation as they age and there's no law that says a distiller can't take 8 year old whisky still in the barrel, fill up the evaporated space in them with 4 year old whisky, let them mingle for a few months and barrel the lot as single barrel expressions. It may in fact be a better whisky for that with the younger stuff adding a bit of freshness to the older stock.

Under either scenario the finished product can be labeled single barrel. What do you guys think?

Isn't this exactly what Brown-Foreman is doing with Woodford Reserve double-oaked single barrels?

Edit: Whoops didn't see the post above

[squire]

I expect Rare Breed has more 6 than 8 and 12 combined but that isn't necessarily a negative if the six was good in the first place.

[Richnimrod]

I expect Rare Breed has more 6 than 8 and 12 combined but that isn't necessarily a negative if the six was good in the first place.

I think Squire is right on with this comment. IF it starts as good Bourbon (or any other stuff that's good) it will be more appealing to those who prefer quality (as long as it hits their preference points in terms of taste, nose, proof, etc.). If the final bottled product label is misleading (or not) it doesn't detract (or add) from the liquid inside. It just makes it more confusing, as well as more difficult to predict how it might taste.... Then again, that's true of single barrel offerings in general.

So if mingling and re-barreling for final aging results in a more consistnet profile to the consumer; maybe that's a good thing. It just seems a bit deceptive.

[squire]

I don't believe single barrel was ever an attempt at making a better Bourbon, rather it was an attempt to compete with single malt.

[DrBob]

That said I think they can succeed in making a better bourbon, especially if they leave it at barrel strength

[luther.r]

KBD seems to combine barrels with some of the single-barrel labeled Willetts. For example some of the old 23+ year rye barrels have yielded over 200 bottles. The Michter's 20 is another example of this.

If the whiskey is great I don't really care if they want to mingle different barrels together, but I would prefer it to be a regulated term and not something that could be applied willy-nilly.

[squire]

I wish they all would mingle the barrels, traditionally that has produced the best whisky. Imagine what Wild Turkey was like when all the honey barrels went into the regular mix.

[Oboe Cadobro]

Under either scenario the finished product can be labeled single barrel. What do you guys think?

BURN the heretic!! :70358-devil:

[BFerguson]

Topping up could be interesting, basically the solera system for bourbon, could get some very unique product out of the system in the end. Maybe lessen the impact of over extraction of oak, but yet get the benefits of extra age to mellow the spirit more??

Done commonly for other spirits, why not bourbon??

B

[oke&coke]

I know Hillrock estate does a solera bourbon. Has anyone tried them?

[mbroo5880i]

While I can find no federal definition of "single barrel," there is an industry specified definition per the Kentucky Distillers Association.

http://www.kybourbon.com/index.php/glossary/

Single barrel whiskey: Whiskey drawn from one barrel that has not been mingled with any other whiskeys.

This definition does not appear to expressly prohibit topping a barrel and then drawing from it to bottle at a later time. However, the spirit of the definition would seem to indicate that the product from the barrel be the same distillate.

I agree that the term single barrel isn't as important as the contents. However, what this exercise illustrates that with the market boom, companies looking to gain an edge in profit, and entry of new players...we, the consumer, need to be careful and understand what we are buying. For example, it is ok if I am buying Brand x small batch and paying $. However, it doesn't seem legit for Brand x to sell a product labeled as single barrel that has been topped off with product from another barrel and then charge $$ for it. It might not be illegal but it is disingenuous. That said, even if the final product is better for it.

[MauiSon]

I wish they all would mingle the barrels, traditionally that has produced the best whisky. Imagine what Wild Turkey was like when all the honey barrels went into the regular mix.

Uh, vested interest bias? Let's face facts, honey barrels are better than large batches by definition. If not, they're not honey barrels. In general, SB.com members will agree that having single barrel choices is better than not having single barrel choices, if for no other reason than that we appreciate the variety.

Sure, if you take all the honey barrels and put 'em back into the standard mix, then the standard mix will improve. At the same time, the possibility of enjoying the unique qualities of those honey barrels will be lost.

[squire]

Arguably there has been a modified solera system all along in that the brands (Evan, Elijah, Roses, Forester, Knob Creek) are mixtures of barrels of different ages from different parts of the warehouse(s) co-mingled to match a profile.

[MauiSon]

That's just obfuscating the meaning of the term via over-extension. I doubt those brands are topping-off older barrels with younger whiskey to keep the older barrels full.

[squire]

No need for topping basic brands, the mixing of different barrels accomplishes the profile without additional labor costs.

[sailor22]

Topping barrels is possible without giving up the age statement, and it isn't the solara system. The solara system is adding younger juice to fill the partly evaporated barrel. Usually it involves many different ages and barrels, think of it as a sequential waterfall into barrels with new water going in at the top and the bottom barrel eventually containing many different ages of the original liquid. That sort of aging is typical for Rum producers who are fighting the rapid evaporation of their distilate in the tropical heat.

The legendary older Ryes that produced the Doug's green ink, Velvet Glove, Iron Fist, Le Nell's Red Hook Ryes and other single barrel bottlings came from barrels that were topped up with other barrels that contained juice from the same days run. So they were aged for a period of years in one warhouse, sold to KBD where they were topped up and moved to another warehouse where they aged for another period of time until the barrels were selected for the single barrel bottlings. It definitely made it unique and friends, thats some mighty good whiskey that will never be duplicated.

Recently Ed Hamilton imported a few barrels of Rum for his vanity label. He bought x number of barrels that all showed significant evaporation from aging in the tropics. Before he imported them, and to save import duty costs which is charged by the barrel, not the volume of whiskey, he had the juice consolidated into a fewer number of full barrels. He didn't mingle any different ages or different styles. They were dumped and bottled individually as single barrels and are currently being retailed as single barrel Rums.

To further confuse us all I guess both those examples would qualify as both a single barrel and a very small batch.

[Merrymash Monk]

So all this brings to mind something I don't quite get. Maybe I'm slow but how does WTRRSmBSB fit in here. I mean I know what small batch means (as much as anyone does since it has no real meaning). And I know what single barrel means (though Squire you bring up some possibilities I've never considered). But what in the world does small batch single barrel mean?

[HighInTheMtns]

So all this brings to mind something I don't quite get. Maybe I'm slow but how does WTRRSmBSB fit in here. I mean I know what small batch means (as much as anyone does since it has no real meaning). And I know what single barrel means (though Squire you bring up some possibilities I've never considered). But what in the world does small batch single barrel mean?

It means exactly the same thing as Single Barrel, since as you said, Small Batch means nothing. It's just kind of a dumb name.