Texas...

[dcbt]

I've lived in DFW or Austin my entire life and though I wouldn't call myself annoyingly hardcore with Texas allegiance, I DO tend to buy Texan ceteris paribus. I buy Shiner, Texas-made salsas, maybe even a bottle of wine now and again. Except for bourbon - Kentucky just does that to perfection. But I keep trying some of the Texas products out there. They are popping up all over the place but many of them just truck in their juice from out-of-state and slap a Texas label on it, so of the 'legit' Texas shops:

Garrison Brothers is too rough around the edges for me (and not worth the price point, nowhere near that).

I know there's a huge discussion on Balcones in another thread, and I would have loved to get my hands on their 5th anniversary bourbon but that ship has sailed.

There's a distillery in FW coming out with a bourbon sometime this year, but it will be very young, probably 2 years. That distillery also makes the TX Blended Whiskey, which has won awards but also apparently has vodka in it (per internet rumblings). So I don't have high hopes there.

But I just discovered a distillery in Dallas County less than 4 miles from my house. They put out a bourbon called Herman Marshall - has anyone had it? I think I'm going to try to find it this weekend just for giggles. It doesn't have an age statement, and the bottle doesn't say 'straight bourbon' - yet I saw they won ADI awards in the straight bourbon category (along with the Balcones V bourbon I think), and I seem to remember reading an article where the founders said it had been barreled for 10 years. So I'm curious long story short...

Edited January 8, 2014 by dcbt

[Fodowsky]

I've seen HM, but haven't tried it. Looking forward to your review!

[squire]

dc I understand your desire to support local products, I'd do the same thing and I'm just an honorary Texan.

Herman Beckley and Marshall Lewis are the owners of the new distillery that produces Herman Marshall whisky and they haven't been in business long enough to have ten year old stock of their own on hand for distribution. Is Herman Marshall another Spec's special? Apparently it's fairly widely available in Central/South Texas and wide availability from a new producer means a sourced product. Also factor that in when being asked to pay a handmade price for bulk sourced goods.

I put little stock in the various awards we read about, sometimes they mean little more than a favorable movie review written by the features editor of a weekly newspaper in rural Iowa.

I do trust the collective tasting experience of the members here at StraightBourbon. We may not agree on all things but the tasting notes are an accurate reflection of what we think and we're not being paid to say it.

[wadewood]

Firestone and Robertson is the distillery in Ft. Worth. I toured it with their distiller last summer and posted a review here. They stuff they distilled is now about 2.75 years old and unlike other Texas Craft distillers they have only aged in full size barrels. They will sale when it's ready and not before. In the mean time they source and blend the TX Whiskey.

ADI awards, San Francisco Spirits awards, etc; Every brand out there has "won" some type of award. IMHO, awards are pay for play advertising. Go by your taste and award those that you like with your business by buying bottle; try 1st at local bar.

Herman Marshall rep in Houston also made the 10 year claim here in Houston and I call BS. They did not get their Federal DSP until a few years ago. If they are selling something they distilled illegal before getting DSP, they are looking for a world of trouble. I think they are really trying to say is that we age in small barrels and it ages faster thus it is equal to 10 years. You can judge that claim for yourself.

Off topic, but Texas Wine - The majority of so called Texas wines are made from 80% or higher from grapes grown outside of Texas.

[Quantum]

There's a distillery in FW coming out with a bourbon sometime this year, but it will be very young, probably 2 years. That distillery also makes the TX Blended Whiskey, which has won awards but also apparently has vodka in it (per internet rumblings). So I don't have high hopes there.

But I just discovered a distillery in Dallas County less than 4 miles from my house. They put out a bourbon called Herman Marshall - has anyone had it? I think I'm going to try to find it this weekend just for giggles. It doesn't have an age statement, and the bottle doesn't say 'straight bourbon' - yet I saw they won ADI awards in the straight bourbon category (along with the Balcones V bourbon I think), and I seem to remember reading an article where the founders said it had been barreled for 10 years. So I'm curious long story short...

I actually have pretty high hopes for Firestone & Robertson. I haven't met them personally, but from people I have talked to they seem to be doing everything right. Their TX Blended Whiskey may have grain neutral spirits, but thats pretty standard practice in blended whiskey. Its like going to Hooters and being concerned whether everything is all natural or not (Chicken wings do not get that big without a crapload of hormones). When you walk in the door you know what you are getting, so just enjoy the food and service for what it is.

Ranger Creek in San Antonio is making the best bourbon in Texas that I have tried. Its still not worth the price, but I like it. They also like to distill their beer recipes, which produces some pretty interesting results. I especially like the Rimfire, which is a mesquite smoked single malt whiskey.

I am also pretty curious about Herman Marshall. There was a tasting in Houston last month that I couldn't make, but it sounds interesting.

I buy a lot of Texas whiskey, but I will be the first to admit that you can get a much higher quality product at a better price from KY.

[weller_tex]

I actually have pretty high hopes for Firestone & Robertson. I haven't met them personally, but from people I have talked to they seem to be doing everything right. Their TX Blended Whiskey may have grain neutral spirits, but thats pretty standard practice in blended whiskey. Its like going to Hooters and being concerned whether everything is all natural or not (Chicken wings do not get that big without a crapload of hormones). When you walk in the door you know what you are getting, so just enjoy the food and service for what it is.

Ranger Creek in San Antonio is making the best bourbon in Texas that I have tried. Its still not worth the price, but I like it. They also like to distill their beer recipes, which produces some pretty interesting results. I especially like the Rimfire, which is a mesquite smoked single malt whiskey.

I am also pretty curious about Herman Marshall. There was a tasting in Houston last month that I couldn't make, but it sounds interesting.

I buy a lot of Texas whiskey, but I will be the first to admit that you can get a much higher quality product at a better price from KY.

Garrison is OK, but I can't shell out $78. I received a bottle of the 1835 Texas bourbon as a gift and when I started doing the research I found out that truth and was horrified that Spec's was pushing it...so I am leery of Texas bourbons now. I have heard good things about Ranger Creek, but $35 for 375ml is still more than I can pay.

Fortunately I can keep buying Shiner and St. Arnold's (Houston brewed) and I know I am getting real Texas products for a good price.

[squire]

Off topic, but Texas Wine - The majority of so called Texas wines are made from 80% or higher from grapes grown outside of Texas.

[dcbt]

Yea, I've had the Ranger Creek, I forgot to mention that one in my original post, but I don't think it's worth its price point either.

Aware of the Texas wine import as a generality, but there are a few exceptions. None of which I can recall right now, though.

[Ravensfire]

I get this image of a tanker truck with California plates pulling up to a Hill Country winery.

Errr, there's a surprising amount of that, especially in smaller wineries. I can't remember the name, but there's a bottler that sources juice from various CA wineries with a surplus and creates their own blends. Each blend has a different number (and rarely will you see a number for more than a year), but the only info on the bottle is the percentage of each varietal. It kinda ruins the picturesque image of the winery when you realize that many of the smaller ones just can't grow enough for what they produce. Look for "Estate bottled" if you want wine where the winery actually grew all the grapes that went into that wine.

-- Ravensfire

[dcbt]

Errr, there's a surprising amount of that, especially in smaller wineries. I can't remember the name, but there's a bottler that sources juice from various CA wineries with a surplus and creates their own blends. Each blend has a different number (and rarely will you see a number for more than a year), but the only info on the bottle is the percentage of each varietal. It kinda ruins the picturesque image of the winery when you realize that many of the smaller ones just can't grow enough for what they produce. Look for "Estate bottled" if you want wine where the winery actually grew all the grapes that went into that wine.

-- Ravensfire

Indeed. I was in Cali wine country last year and learned quickly the tour guides quickly where their grapes came from. So many import them even there (even from just down the road).

[Renegator]

The only Texas Whiskey I have tried is Rebecca Creek and I found it to be fairly good but a little boring (nothing stood out to me).

[Quantum]

Garrison is OK, but I can't shell out $78. I received a bottle of the 1835 Texas bourbon as a gift and when I started doing the research I found out that truth and was horrified that Spec's was pushing it...so I am leery of Texas bourbons now. I have heard good things about Ranger Creek, but $35 for 375ml is still more than I can pay.

Fortunately I can keep buying Shiner and St. Arnold's (Houston brewed) and I know I am getting real Texas products for a good price.

I guess we do need to differentiate "actual Texas products" from "Texas labeled products". In stores, I generally assume anything with a Texas label is just re-packaged garbage, until I can verify otherwise. When discussing whiskey here, I only use the term "Texas whiskey" on actual Texas distilled products.

Beer is another story. The Houston area alone has a pretty solid selection of local breweries. I like No Label, and they are starting to get better distribution. Karbach makes a quality product, assuming you love hops more than your own mother. Southern Star is pretty good, and a buddy of mine is the head brewer over there. Saint Arnold has a good regular line up, and they have come out with some amazing bourbon barreled special releases. If you ever get the chance to talk to Brock, he is genuinely a great guy. Very friendly and unassuming, considering his Divine Reserve and Bishops Barrel releases have a local demand that PVW is only barely reaching now.

[clindt]

Yea, I've had the Ranger Creek, I forgot to mention that one in my original post, but I don't think it's worth its price point either.

Aware of the Texas wine import as a generality, but there are a few exceptions. None of which I can recall right now, though.

Brushy Creek in Alvord, TX uses only Texas grown grapes and they make very good wines.

[dcbt]

Herman Marshall rep in Houston also made the 10 year claim here in Houston and I call BS. They did not get their Federal DSP until a few years ago. If they are selling something they distilled illegal before getting DSP, they are looking for a world of trouble. I think they are really trying to say is that we age in small barrels and it ages faster thus it is equal to 10 years. You can judge that claim for yourself.

That makes sense (and is unfortunate).

[weller_tex]

Brushy Creek in Alvord, TX uses only Texas grown grapes and they make very good wines.

Llano Estacado in Lubbock does as well. Pleasant Hill in Brenham grows there own but supplements with grapes from Lubbock.

[weller_tex]

I guess we do need to differentiate "actual Texas products" from "Texas labeled products". In stores, I generally assume anything with a Texas label is just re-packaged garbage, until I can verify otherwise. When discussing whiskey here, I only use the term "Texas whiskey" on actual Texas distilled products.

Beer is another story. The Houston area alone has a pretty solid selection of local breweries. I like No Label, and they are starting to get better distribution. Karbach makes a quality product, assuming you love hops more than your own mother. Southern Star is pretty good, and a buddy of mine is the head brewer over there. Saint Arnold has a good regular line up, and they have come out with some amazing bourbon barreled special releases. If you ever get the chance to talk to Brock, he is genuinely a great guy. Very friendly and unassuming, considering his Divine Reserve and Bishops Barrel releases have a local demand that PVW is only barely reaching now.

I am not a regular beer drinker, but when I do it is a Texas beer. I would not like Karbach..I hate really hoppy beers. I will have to try Southern Star..likely the Pine Belt Pale Ale it sounds hoppy but not extremely so.

[wadewood]

The only Texas Whiskey I have tried is Rebecca Creek and I found it to be fairly good but a little boring (nothing stood out to me).

Please don't judge Texas whiskey by Rebecca Creek; which is an abomination called spirit whiskey; it's not bourbon.

[wadewood]

Firestone and Robertson is the distillery in Ft. Worth...... is now about 2.75 years old

Just a quick correction; oldest is 22 months.

[squire]

I'm not against sourcing grapes, finished wines or whisky for that matter, in fact I think it's a good idea. I would like to see some independents vatting sourced products, collectively or with their own, to create something greater than it's parts. All I ask is disclosure and a fair price.

[weller_tex]

I'm not against sourcing grapes, finished wines or whisky for that matter, in fact I think it's a good idea. I would like to see some independents vatting sourced products, collectively or with their own, to create something greater than it's parts. All I ask is disclosure and a fair price.

When there are crop issues and Llano Estacado has to supplement with grapes from California, they state so on the label. I like that.

[TexasSpiritsGeek]

So apparently I'm the only one in Texas to have tried Herman Marshall...

My $0.02: It's very good. Not sure what the mash bill is, but the sweetness of the corn really pulls through on this one. The nose is strongly vanilla and dried fruits. I can't attest (yet) to the age or source of the whiskey, but it's tasty.

I've been following Texas distilleries closely for about a year now, and I decided to start a website (www.TxSpiritsGeek.com) to clear up any confusion caused (directly or indirectly) by the label on these products. I'm hoping to make a trip up to Dallas by the end of the month to check out all the distilleries up there and add a few more entries to the site. Any feedback ya'll would like to contribute would be greatly appreciated.

[squire]

Andy is there any information on the label to indicate age or source?

[dcbt]

So apparently I'm the only one in Texas to have tried Herman Marshall...

My $0.02: It's very good. Not sure what the mash bill is, but the sweetness of the corn really pulls through on this one. The nose is strongly vanilla and dried fruits. I can't attest (yet) to the age or source of the whiskey, but it's tasty.

I've been following Texas distilleries closely for about a year now, and I decided to start a website (www.TxSpiritsGeek.com) to clear up any confusion caused (directly or indirectly) by the label on these products. I'm hoping to make a trip up to Dallas by the end of the month to check out all the distilleries up there and add a few more entries to the site. Any feedback ya'll would like to contribute would be greatly appreciated.

What about their claim of 10 years aging? That seems misleading... I'm already turned off on them because of it, and I was ready to purchase a bottle! I should clarify they don't have an age expression on the bottle, but I've read them claim that (and someone else mentioned hearing a rep say that as wel.) But as someone else pointed out, that doesn't even seem possible...

Edited January 9, 2014 by dcbt

[TexasSpiritsGeek]

Andy is there any information on the label to indicate age or source?

Not sure. I'll check when I get home tonight. Maybe post a picture up here.

A couple of articles on the product: http://www.whiterocklakeweekly.com/view/full_story/24178321/article-Distilleries--in-Dallas-

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/cityofate/2013/08/herman_marhall_bourbon_is_seri.php

http://eatsblog.dallasnews.com/2013/07/dallas-distilleries-off-to-great-start-with-herman-marshall-whiskeys-artisanal-award.html/

One of the articles shows them in front of a still. From all indications, they're making the stuff themselves. As for the 10 year comment, I'm not sure how that's possible.

[dcbt]

Not sure. I'll check when I get home tonight. Maybe post a picture up here.

A couple of articles on the product: http://www.whiterocklakeweekly.com/view/full_story/24178321/article-Distilleries--in-Dallas-

One of the articles shows them in front of a still. From all indications, they're making the stuff themselves. As for the 10 year comment, I'm not sure how that's possible.

Perfect, here's the quote from the White Rock article: "The beginning of last year, I turned to Herman," Louis said, pointing to barrels of product that had been aging for 10 years. "Let's see what we've got." Then again, the author could be wrong, too, for that matter. Technically they were not quoted. But they do have a rep making the same claims apparently.