More Age Statement Deception by Sazerac

[squire]

Got to admit, it is a nice font.

[BigBoldBully]

Thing is the largest majority of consumers will never notice these changes, and likely wouldn't even care if they did. So who can blame then, truly?

Everyone who cares can blame them, that's who. If they were banking on the idea that people would not care, they would not need to make the changes as unnoticeable as possible.

Yet they are basically choosing to camouflage the shifts instead of making them more apparent, avoiding even the established and already borderline-scallywag practice of adding an Old # whatever when dropping an age statement, yet keeping the number, etc.

[PaulO]

When I started to get really interested in bourbon, I used to buy OC 8 year old fairly often. Only a few years ago it was under $10. It's not a very complicated bourbon, almost like a straight corn whiskey. If any of the Indy area people are interested PM me. The place I know had it a week or so ago, but now it's closer to $15. Anymore, I'd prefer to spend a little more for something I really enjoy. I must say, the whole label thing is very shadey. Meanwhile, no Weller being shipped?!?

[clindt]

Thing is the largest majority of consumers will never notice these changes, and likely wouldn't even care if they did. So who can blame then, truly?

Maybe I'm living in a fantasy world, but I think people will start taking notice. With so much whiskey blogging and info on the internet, word will get around.

The people that won't care or won't notice weren't buying OC8 to begin with.

[PaulO]

Indeed, the age statement was a big selling point for me.

[clindt]

Indeed, the age statement was a big selling point for me.

[White Dog]

And let's not forget they're even doing it with the smallest of brands--e.g., switching Fleischmann's rye from a "straight rye whiskey" to a "mash rye whiskey" all the while using such an overly elaborate cursive font that it is likely to escape most people's notice (not to mention, what the heck is a "mash rye whiskey"?).

This reminds me. I had bought a bottle in 2013, and thought nothing of it until I read of the change on this website. I checked the bottle, then tasted. Shame on you, Sazerac!

[Vietish]

After reading this thread, I just realised that Makers Mark 46 is not actually 46 years old as I first thought! Talk about misleading, a huge number right on the front of the bottle!

[BigBoldBully]

After reading this thread, I just realised that Makers Mark 46 is not actually 46 years old as I first thought! Talk about misleading, a huge number right on the front of the bottle!

I know you're attempting humor, but if it had started as a 46-year-old, and if 46-year-old bourbon were a common thing, and if such bourbon typically retailed for around 35 bucks, yeah it would be time to be pissed about that too.

[Trey Manthey]

This is already on the shelves in Louisiana.

[mbroo5880i]

After reading this thread, I just realised that Makers Mark 46 is not actually 46 years old as I first thought! Talk about misleading, a huge number right on the front of the bottle!

I would think that MM46 would be 92 proof.

[smokinjoe]

I tend to give the distilleries the benefit of the doubt on nearly every move they make. I know they are in a tough spot now. I get it, that something's got to give in this oversold bourbon market. They have to make really difficult choices. But, this move, and the VOBBIB 6 move before it, is simply WRONG. I'm sorry, but it is deceptive, dishonest, and inexcusable, IMO.

[Trey Manthey]

Everyone who cares can blame them, that's who. If they were banking on the idea that people would not care, they would not need to make the changes as unnoticeable as possible.

Yet they are basically choosing to camouflage the shifts instead of making them more apparent, avoiding even the established and already borderline-scallywag practice of adding an Old # whatever when dropping an age statement, yet keeping the number, etc.

Look at it from their point of view. Their 8 year old stocks are running dry. If there is a customer who has been drinking Old Charter 8 year for decades, and suddenly it totally disappears from the shelves to be replaced by something with a new label that says "Old Charter Original Goodness" (or something else generic like that), then they might lose a customer. If they can release "Old Charter 8" with the exact same flavor profile as Old Charter 8 year, and the longtime customer doesn't even know the difference, I'm OK with that. Most bourbon drinkers don't even know what an age statement really means.

Alright, so we've heard all the belly-aching, but who is going to get off their high-horse and tell us how they think Buffalo Trace should handle the situation instead? Make a totally different label? Let the stocks run dry?

[smokinjoe]

I hear you, Trey. But, an age statement has, and does, mean something. I don't necessarily have a problem with them having to make the difficult decision (as I'm sure it was very difficult) to have to drop it to keep the iteration going, but using the number in it's place is just not right, IMO.

My apologies to my good friend in Tallahassee, for riding his good back on this subject!

[black mamba]

I'm with smokinjoe on this one. If they can keep the flavor profile the same, then why do they need the deception? Just take the age off with no other changes to the label. If people who are used to drinking it like it and continue to buy it, all well and good. But if they can't keep the flavor the same, then they need to call it something else, because it is something else. You don't drink the label, you drink (and buy) the bourbon.

[mbroo5880i]

I would prefer that they just be upfront and send out a press release explaining the change and why. They are making money hand over fist so I doubt they go broke if they lose a customer or two over Old Charter. They forewarned us of shortages. They could now update us by telling us as a result OC 8 will now be NAS due to dwindling supplies of 8-year old product that meet the profile while assuring us that they believe they new version will match the flavor profile that customers enjoy. One might think that would drive people away but they could also explain the options...change to NAS, increase the price, or put on allocation. All three of which might ultimately occur anyway.

[Quantum]

I bought some OC 8 yr old today to see if it was worth grabbing a couple bottles for the bunker. I found it so unremarkable, that I decided to use it to rinse out a mini-barrel I got for aging cocktails. 10 minutes in the barrel later, its actually pretty decent. This makes me think I need to start stocking my bar with a salt shaker filled with bits of charred oak.

[BigBoldBully]

Well Trey, there you have it: if as a distiller you have decided to axe age statements, the high road would be to give notice of what you're doing, then change the labels in a way that is unlikely to mislead. Second best would be simply to do the latter. Third best would be to change the labels in a somewhat misleading way (e.g., "Old No. #).

Worst would be . . . what they are doing. Now excuse me whilst I climb back onto my high horse. :grin:

[393foureyedfox]

just last year I remember seeing lots of OC10 year on the shelves, then it was gone and replaced with oc8 year, and now that is gone. wow, they really cant keep up

[Trey Manthey]

Well Trey, there you have it: if as a distiller you have decided to axe age statements, the high road would be to give notice of what you're doing, then change the labels in a way that is unlikely to mislead. Second best would be simply to do the latter. Third best would be to change the labels in a somewhat misleading way (e.g., "Old No. #).

Worst would be . . . what they are doing. Now excuse me whilst I climb back onto my high horse. :grin:

All valid points. However, I have a feeling that 95% of the people who actually drink OC8 don't care or won't notice the difference. We are talking about a low-end product here. Even if they did take the "high road", who would benefit? I bet we would just see a bunch of speculators buying up all the age-stated stocks (see the VOB phenomenon) and all the non-trainspotters that just look for Old Charter with an 8 on the label when they just want a bottle of bourbon wouldn't know the difference. Why waste the time and energy to "warn" whiskey nerds who don't even buy the product?

[smokinjoe]

Keep the label the same, and just take the number off completely. Aren't the 8 yr and the Old Charter 101 the last remaining expressions of the brand left? The labels are totally different, so I don't think there would be any confusion. I don't think the 95% are looking for the 8. I suspect they're looking for the bright yellow label, and "Old Charter".

Age statements mean something. They're important. I think it is extremely deceptive to change an established age stated whiskey's label in such a way as was done with OC8 and VOBBIB.

I would have felt the same if Wild Turkey had continued to call their rye, Wild Turkey Rye 101, after they lowered the proof to 81.

[squire]

Age statements certainly do mean something. If they didn't producers wouldn't find such sneaky ways to keep them on the label.

[MyOldKyDram]

Exactly right. If they didn't carry some weight they would drop the number altogether.

[squire]

Maturity is the only thing that counts and pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

[silverfish]

Reading this it occurred to me that mayhap we could use a (sticky ?) "timeline"

thread to include current/future bourbon changes - label/proof changes, VOB 6

switch, Ritt1/354 change, etc. Members could post images of the "new" bottles

as they appear and then when someone asks "When did Brand X go from AS to

NAS?" we'd have a nice little "master list" to refer to. I suppose we could include

prior changes by reading through older threads and marking those items with a *

or something to denote searched info as opposed to shelf info.

I dunno - just me thinking it'd be nice to have a public "database", especially since

changes (pro/con, depending on your drink of choice) seem to be happening more

frequently and new members (and old-timers!) might appreciate a handy place to

find such info.