NDP Contradictions/Hypocracy

[squire]

Next we'll be hearing about special warehouses that age Rye faster.

[benpearson]

People complain about Sazerac dropping their age statements on some products. But at least we know it's the same recipe from the same distillery...

Unless we are talking about Bottled in Bond bourbon or a product specifically states where it was produced, we can't know for certain that anything we are buying is from the distillery that is selling it. I know of no particular instances of a large distillery doing this, and I don't think that's the sort of information that gets out there. However, there are many instances of large distilleries selling bourbon to NDP's.

I agree with many of the posts above relating to quality, however I don't believe this to be isolated to just NDPs. I feel the quality of a lot of things has declined in recent years (including my hairline.) The change is more gradual the larger the producer. At the same time, in the last few years we've seen some really incredible stuff come to market from distillers and NDPs

I don't think there is anything inherently evil about not producing your own whiskey, or dropping an age statement. One thing I have learned, if a whiskey is really good, buy some extra...it's unlikely you will get the chance later in life.

A few questions:

Who did MGPI (LDI) sell to before the KBD's of the world existed, and after Seagrams ownership?

What happens to the extra bottles from a single barrel? I've been involved in quite a few retailer barrel selections. Somehow all the barrels I've seen picked have yielded a number of bottles divisible by 6 or 12.

[393foureyedfox]

What happens to the extra bottles from a single barrel? I've been involved in quite a few retailer barrel selections. Somehow all the barrels I've seen picked have yielded a number of bottles divisible by 6 or 12.

I wondered that myself when on the Beam tour last year watching KCSB being bottled. I didnt ask, but just assumed anything left at the end of bottling, like say there was enough for 200.5 bottles, that they bottled 200 bottles and the other .5 bottle worth was mixed in with regular KC before cutting to 100 proof.

itd be interesting to know for sure though

[squire]

Wastage is one of the perks of working on the single barrel line.

[benpearson]

My thought is that all of this wastage is sold as a lot, at least by some distilleries. It could also be put in with larger batches, but I would think large amounts could throw the product off profile.

[squire]

I would drink it.

[sku]

Unless we are talking about Bottled in Bond bourbon or a product specifically states where it was produced, we can't know for certain that anything we are buying is from the distillery that is selling it. I know of no particular instances of a large distillery doing this, and I don't think that's the sort of information that gets out there. However, there are many instances of large distilleries selling bourbon to NDP's.

I agree with many of the posts above relating to quality, however I don't believe this to be isolated to just NDPs. I feel the quality of a lot of things has declined in recent years (including my hairline.) The change is more gradual the larger the producer. At the same time, in the last few years we've seen some really incredible stuff come to market from distillers and NDPs

I don't think there is anything inherently evil about not producing your own whiskey, or dropping an age statement. One thing I have learned, if a whiskey is really good, buy some extra...it's unlikely you will get the chance later in life.

A few questions:

Who did MGPI (LDI) sell to before the KBD's of the world existed, and after Seagrams ownership?

What happens to the extra bottles from a single barrel? I've been involved in quite a few retailer barrel selections. Somehow all the barrels I've seen picked have yielded a number of bottles divisible by 6 or 12.

From what I've heard, there is much more back an forth contracting between big KY distilleries than most people assume. The most well known example is all of the contracting out Heaven Hill did after the fire but I've heard about other contracts as well, mostly to fill production gaps.

As to LDI's business before the NDPs. Their most well known work was for Diageo for Seagram's 7 but they also did export brands (Cougar for Foster's in Australia) an probably bulk supermarket brands.

[squire]

A main thrust of LDI business in years past was (and still is) being a massive supplier of GNS. Most if not all the cheap vodka/gin/cordials/liqueurs on the market today are based on LDI/MGP produced GNS. It's cheaper for the major producers to buy from MGP than make it themselves.

[PaulO]

...

As far as whose bourbon KBD has in their warehouses, a long time member here has said "all majors except for one" and a signed NDA prevents him from saying which one.

My guess the "one" is Willett. ha-ha

[squire]

Good one Paul . . . . .

[drew_kulsveen]

I saw that too, but the mashbill in the paragraph is 13% rye as well. Unless they're making two bourbons with 13% rye, which is possible, they only listed five mashbills.

Our other bourbon mashbill has 38% rye in it.

[dSculptor]

Hey guys! interesting thread , can someone fill me in and others who are a bit new to all the lingo out here on a few abrv.

NDP -non distillers..? National distillers.. P --

LDI

WFE

CVI

And how about someone coming up with a list of all the NDP's out there, I would surely like to see that.

[Old Dusty]

Drew, enjoyed the run w Family Estate. Excited to see what you guys do with your own distillate. Will you continue to bottle sourced bourbon/rye when your own is matured or transition solely to your own?

[luther.r]

Hey guys! interesting thread , can someone fill me in and others who are a bit new to all the lingo out here on a few abrv.

NDP -non distillers..? National distillers.. P --

LDI

WFE

CVI

And how about someone coming up with a list of all the NDP's out there, I would surely like to see that.

NDP - Non-Distilling Producer

LDI - Lawrenceburg Distillers Indiana (now known as MGP or MGPI)

WFE - Willett Family Estate: the single barrel, top-of-the-line product from KBD

CVI - CVI Brands, the owner of the Black Maple Hill brand.

[nd2005]

Hey guys! interesting thread , can someone fill me in and others who are a bit new to all the lingo out here on a few abrv.

NDP -non distillers..? National distillers.. P --

LDI

WFE

CVI

And how about someone coming up with a list of all the NDP's out there, I would surely like to see that.

NDP: "Non-distiller producer" (buys other people's whiskey rather than distilling their own)

LDI: Lawrenceburg Distillers, Indiana - Source of a large volume of the rye that is purchased by NDPs. Ownership has bounced around quite a bit...belonged to Seagrams for a while...now owned by a company called MGP

CVI: A smaller company based out of California that owns the Black Maple Hill label. No clue what CVI actually stands for...

WFE: Willett Family Estate. The single barrel offerings from Willett Distillery/KBD (Kentucky Bourbon Distillers)

Here's a list of all the whiskey makers and NDPs out there:

http://recenteats.blogspot.com/p/the-complete-list-of-american-whiskey.html

[dSculptor]

Excellent! thanks guys , I really like the link you gave -- nd2005, I'm sure there are a lot of other members out there (newbies) that would like this info also. Maybe we could get those abrv. added to the abrv. list, they are not on there.

[squire]

Our other bourbon mashbill has 38% rye in it.

Hello Drew, welcome back.

[adub23]

CVI: A smaller company based out of California that owns the Black Maple Hill label. No clue what CVI actually stands for...

CVI = California Vineyards Inc (according to the article you web linked)

[nd2005]

CVI = California Vineyards Inc (according to the article you web linked)

To be fair...it was a really long article...

[adub23]

To be fair...it was a really long article...

I wasn't being a smart ass, I didn't know what it stood for either before reading that. Good source of info - thanks for sharing!

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

[mosugoji64]

Our other bourbon mashbill has 38% rye in it.

Thanks, Drew. We appreciate you clearing that up. I'm looking forward to giving all 6 of your mashbills a whirl!

[p_elliott]

The LDI Rye was used as a flavoring rye in Canadian whisky.