Did Woodford Reserve used to be better?

[flahute]

As a noob, I was hesitant to post a seemingly pedestrian question, but I've seen some similar queries lately so I thought I would ask.

If you saw my intro post over in the "new to SB" forum you might remember that I got my start 10-12 years ago, was a very infrequent drinker, and that Woodford was my high end bourbon. (Makers was my regular).

When I started to branch out last year and explore the wide world that's out there, I still had a bottle of 10+ year old Woodford on the shelf. After spending some time with the likes of Elmer T, EH Taylor Small Batch and SB, and numerous others, I went back to that bottle of old Woodford. I did so in the context of the many online reviews and commentary from here that was less than kind to Woodford. I found that though my old bottle was not as good as some of the new bourbons I was enjoying, it wasn't has horrible as the general opinion I had been reading. This could be my inexperienced palate talking. However, at a couple recent parties I attended with very limited options, Woodford was the best available so I gave it a shot. In both cases, the newer bottles did not seem to be much at all like my older one. Hard to say for sure since it wasn't side by side, but both times the new bottle tasted the same and was different from that old and now empty bottle.

Am I nuts or is there anything to this?

Steve

[Kyjd75]

I am not a WR fan at all, but it is my understanding that the original bottlings of WR were basically selected barrels of Old Forester and nothing else. Now WR is a blend of OF (primarily) and WR (a little bit). Some people say the WR distilled in those copper stills is the reason for the taste difference. I prefer straight OF to WR myself.

[Flyfish]

When I started to branch out last year and explore the wide world that's out there, I still had a bottle of 10+ year old Woodford on the shelf. After spending some time with the likes of Elmer T, EH Taylor Small Batch and SB, and numerous others, I went back to that bottle of old Woodford. I did so in the context of the many online reviews and commentary from here that was less than kind to Woodford. I found that though my old bottle was not as good as some of the new bourbons I was enjoying, it wasn't has horrible as the general opinion I had been reading. This could be my inexperienced palate talking. However, at a couple recent parties I attended with very limited options, Woodford was the best available so I gave it a shot. In both cases, the newer bottles did not seem to be much at all like my older one.

Am I nuts or is there anything to this?

Steve

Well, yes. You probably are nuts. It is widely shared trait of SBers who tend to have OCD when it comes to bourbon. I don't think Woodford is "horrible." It is just disappointing for the price so I haven't had any since 2010 according to my notes. But you really and truly are allowed to have a different opinion. I don't know if Woodford has changed but I am almost certain that palates, like the climate, are always changing. What tastes great on Tuesday can disappoint on Wednesday. Sometimes you are just forced to keep tasting until you get it right. Sometimes tasting bourbon is a multiple choice quiz on which the right answer is D--All of the above.

[squire]

This is a deep issue that deserves further consideration, at least a couple more bottles.

[luther.r]

If your 10+ year old bottle had been opened, I'd expect it to have changed from the air time over the years. One thing to consider.

[smknjoe]

If your 10+ year old bottle had been opened, I'd expect it to have changed from the air time over the years. One thing to consider.

If it was sealed (had it's top on) for ten years how would air make a difference?

[luther.r]

If it was sealed (had it's top on) for ten years how would air make a difference?

I guess it depends how much air was in the bottle vs. whiskey. For example, I found a bottle in the back of my cabinet last week with 1" left of 2009 PVW15 that had been open about a year and a half. It was really bad, undrinkable, from the air. I had to pour it out.

[flahute]

The old bottle was 1/2 empty when I went back to it for comparison so it had been exposed to a lot of air time.

[squire]

Opening a bottle injects new oxygen (doesn't take but a little) that will cause a slight change we would notice but most wouldn't, and even some of us prefer the slight oxidation caused by time.

[flahute]

Opening a bottle injects new oxygen (doesn't take but a little) that will cause a slight change we would notice but most wouldn't, and even some of us prefer the slight oxidation caused by time.

I've definitely noticed that on some of my newer and current bourbons and I assumed that had something to do with the different flavor of the old Woodford. It seemed too different for that to be the only explanation, but then again, I have a lot to learn.

Regarding the point about quality to price ratio, I hear that loud and clear.

[smknjoe]

...but a bottle that is half full for over the course of 10 years is not exposed to any more oxygen than one that is half full for a few months assuming the bottles are opened the same number of times to get a pour out of them.

[squire]

Once the seal is broken the bottle is no longer airtight and that's enough.

[luther.r]

My thinking is that when a bottle is first filled and sealed, the small amount of air in the bottle will react with the whiskey until the reacting gases in the air are used up. From then on, it's basically an inert system. Once you open the bottle, you let in more react-able gases and the process starts again, changing the whiskey further. As the bottle is consumed, there's more room for air so there's a higher ratio of gases available to react with the whiskey.

[squire]

My thinking is your thinking is spot on.

[smknjoe]

My thinking is that when a bottle is first filled and sealed, the small amount of air in the bottle will react with the whiskey until the reacting gases in the air are used up. From then on, it's basically an inert system. Once you open the bottle, you let in more react-able gases and the process starts again, changing the whiskey further. As the bottle is consumed, there's more room for air so there's a higher ratio of gases available to react with the whiskey.

I completely agree.

[fishnbowljoe]

I am not a WR fan at all, but it is my understanding that the original bottlings of WR were basically selected barrels of Old Forester and nothing else. Now WR is a blend of OF (primarily) and WR (a little bit). Some people say the WR distilled in those copper stills is the reason for the taste difference. I prefer straight OF to WR myself.

Kyjd75 pretty much called it. The original batches of WR were Old Forester distillate. Sometime after WR came on line, that distillate was later blended with the OF stuff. Only part I disagree with, I seem to remember reading or hearing from somewhere, that WR is now mostly WR distillate, and very little, or no OF. I could be wrong, not 100% sure.

I might be able to help some with the age of your bottle Steve. Take a look at the front label on your bottle. Check to see what the batch number is, and who the master distiller is. Let us know what you find out.

Joe

Edited February 9, 2014 by fishnbowljoe

[flahute]

Joe, I wish I could take you up on that offer, but I finished off and disposed of the bottle prior to tasting the current versions and thinking of asking the question.

What I can tell you is that my bottle still had the little neck tag booklet listing its accolades and awards and had one from the late 90's from a source (I think a magazine) that I didn't recognize and another award from 2001 spirits competition.

[Tucker]

A few years ago I compared a freshly opened bottle of Batch 8 (Lincoln Henderson) with a current bottle. The Batch 8 smacked the newer bottle upside the head, stole its girlfriend, and told it to go suck on a roll of pennies.

Shively > Versailles

[fishnbowljoe]

A few years ago I compared a freshly opened bottle of Batch 8 (Lincoln Henderson) with a current bottle. The Batch 8 smacked the newer bottle upside the head, stole its girlfriend, and told it to go suck on a roll of pennies.

Shively > Versailles

Exactly. Those early batches with Lincoln Henderson's name on them were great. Tasted a Batch 12, and have a batch 36. Had another early batch bottle, but it mysteriously disappeared. :yum:

[flahute]

Exactly. Those early batches with Lincoln Henderson's name on them were great. Tasted a Batch 12, and have a batch 36. Had another early batch bottle, but it mysteriously disappeared. :yum:

Dangit - I wish I had that bottle still so I could figure out if I'm full of it or if I was onto something. I remember taking a close look at the label before disposing of it and I'm pretty sure the batch # was in the low 200 range.

[BFerguson]

Recently, I find myself thinking more and more that most everything used to be better..........

B

[fishnbowljoe]

Recently, I find myself thinking more and more that most everything used to be better..........

B

You beat me to that one B. :bowdown: After reading all the threads and posts about lost age statements, lost proof, lost iterations etc…. I was thinking exactly the same thing. It all used to be better.

Joe

[DrBob]

Maybe it all used to be better, but as a two year bourbon newbie, I have to say its pretty damn good right now.

[Max Power]

Recently, I find myself thinking more and more that most everything used to be better..........

B

I sort of have to call BS on that. People want to believe that it's better because it can't be had anymore. I've had plenty of dusties and out of production special issues that have been mediocre. Everyone's taste is different...and bourbon is still made in pretty much the same way. The reason that a lot of people believe that stuff is better is only based on the secondary market prices and the fact that's it's now hard to find. I agree with the last post. The current stuff is pretty good as well. What is better will always just be a matter of personal preference.

[jvd99]

Maybe it all used to be better, but as a two year bourbon newbie, I have to say its pretty damn good right now.