Jeff Ocean II

[PaulO]

I've been a smart-alec my whole life. So, I can't really stop now. On the other hand, if some one bought something I wouldn't or couldn't buy, I'm very curious to read the review.

[Harry in WashDC]

Here we are poking fun at this latest Jefferson gimmick/experiment/innovation/adcampaign (pick one) which amounts to free advertising, and look at the potential customers being reached here on SB - talk about targeting. Reminds me of all those Charmin adverts which showed that an ad campaign is bad only when people DON'T talk about the product. I also admit to buying the basic Jefferson from time to time "even though" it's an NDP; I like the taste.

[squire]

It's all in fun Harry. I'm not a member of the group taken in by gimmicks and am frankly indifferent how those that are spend their money. We may as well laugh about it though, it's right up there with pressure cookers and charcoal bits.

[Harry in WashDC]

It's all in fun Harry. I'm not a member of the group taken in by gimmicks and am frankly indifferent how those that are spend their money. We may as well laugh about it though, it's right up there with pressure cookers and charcoal bits.

WHOA!! Now you done it!! Makin fun of my bits!!

[sutton]

I just spent an hour or so listening to Jim Rutledge cover the history of Four Roses and how he stuck to his guns over decades to bring us what is now on our shelves. I was struck by his determination to do what he thought was right over what is closing on 4 decades.

And then I look at Trey Z. and Jeffersons and ask myself where I should spend my money ... and the answer is clear.

[Paddy]

I just spent an hour or so listening to Jim Rutledge cover the history of Four Roses and how he stuck to his guns over decades to bring us what is now on our shelves. I was struck by his determination to do what he thought was right over what is closing on 4 decades.

And then I look at Trey Z. and Jeffersons and ask myself where I should spend my money ... and the answer is clear.

That is well said and I could not agree more!

[Restaurant man]

I just spent an hour or so listening to Jim Rutledge cover the history of Four Roses and how he stuck to his guns over decades to bring us what is now on our shelves. I was struck by his determination to do what he thought was right over what is closing on 4 decades.

And then I look at Trey Z. and Jeffersons and ask myself where I should spend my money ... and the answer is clear.

What he said!!!!

[Ejmharris]

What he said!!!!

What he said about what he said!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tanstaafl2]

It's all in fun Harry. I'm not a member of the group taken in by gimmicks and am frankly indifferent how those that are spend their money. We may as well laugh about it though, it's right up there with pressure cookers and charcoal bits.

I know I am still in the minority here but I don't think it is even close to those things. The bourbon source may be unknown, which I don't like, but it is almost certainly the same bourbon made by the big boys. Heck, it could be Four Roses (Unlikely as that is but possible).

They are using standards barrels and agitation of said barrels is not a new or modern technique. The first bourbons of acclaim 200 some years ago got agitated on barges and boats coming down the Ohio and Mississippi after all. As I understand it barrel rotation, a kind of agitation, was a regular practice in at least some distilleries in the past until it got impractical or was determined unnecessarily by some bean counter.

Is the whole "Ocean" aspect, especially in this second go around, a gimmick? Sure. Does it help them overly inflate the price as compared to how much it benefits the whiskey? Probably. Does it do nothing for the whiskey or perhaps make it even worse like pressure cookers and charcoal "bits" seem to at this point? I don't believe it does. And if it did nothing else the first Ocean made that pretty clear to me. In fact I am pretty sure it does add something positive and beneficial if one is prepared to look past the gimmick. And these days to get noticed it clearly doesn't hurt to have a gimmick. So if you are going to have one it seems useful to have one that actually works.

I just spent an hour or so listening to Jim Rutledge cover the history of Four Roses and how he stuck to his guns over decades to bring us what is now on our shelves. I was struck by his determination to do what he thought was right over what is closing on 4 decades.

And then I look at Trey Z. and Jeffersons and ask myself where I should spend my money ... and the answer is clear.

For me it certainly is. Both of them! The only question for me is how much I allocate to each one. Four Roses at the moment seems to be at the apex of transparency in the business so that is casting a very wide net to compare these two very different companies (Although the Four Roses account of how it got its name certainly seems to be a fairy tale!). If they can continue to maintain standards as the shortages start to affect them, as seems almost inevitable, then I will certainly applaud them for it.

I am certainly no apologist for Jefferson's. I have previously decried their annoying lack of transparency, like much of the NDP world, and will no doubt continue to do so. I don't believe the veil of contract requirement secrecy not to reveal sources they typically seem to hide behind. The lack of communication beforehand (talking about it after the fact on an obscure video blog just isn't adequate) about the apparent shenanigans with the later batches of JPS 18 is very disappointing to learn about.

So if one chooses not to support them in the future because any or all of these things then that's perfectly fine. I take them into consideration as well and probably have bought less of their products as a result. But I don't think they are problems that are unique to Jefferson's and I evaluate each release on their individual merits as I pick and choose where to spend my money.

[Harry in WashDC]

[Note to myself: I just have to start using emoticons - people are taking me seriously.]

It is too bad that casual whiskey drinkers probably are more attracted to flashy Jeff (i.e., have heard its name) than to FR offerings. When somebody asks me if I like Jeff, however, I'm more likely to point to the several bottles of FRSmB on my shelf while agreeing that basic Jeff is fine IMO but also IMO a little pricy so I don't buy it often. Or I let them try my backshelf HMcKBIB instead. OTOH, I have a nice, almost full WR Single Malt Classic in a bottle that really needs to go back in a barrel for a few years and an Old Bardstown "Estate Bottled" 101 that I bought for a reason that now escapes me (and which tastes to me like peppered Karo syrup w/a TBS of corn oil added). IOW, one must take a chance now and then just to prove to one's self that one's not dead yet.:grin:

[squire]

That's right Harry, still kicking, verbally anyway.

[TunnelTiger]

I see plenty of various Jeff's everywhere I go and none are cheap. It would appear that unlike BT shortage is not a problem for them.

[squire]

The supply flows like an ocean breeze.

[Harry in WashDC]

Regulating supply by price, just like in Econ 101. This product looks to be the ONLY place that works. hahaha

[OutlawSW]

Regulating supply by price, just like in Econ 101. This product looks to be the ONLY place that works. hahaha

Never tried Econ 101, is it anything like Old Ezra 101?

[Harry in WashDC]

Never tried Econ 101, is it anything like Old Ezra 101?

Yup. A lot dryer though.

[flahute]

Yup. A lot dryer though.

Call it a limited release and it will sell like hotcakes.

[squire]

That's punny Harry.

[jwevan01]

Well, I read through the thread to see if anyone had actually tried it, didn't see anything. Wishing now that I had taken careful notes last week when attending the paired food and Jefferson's tasting at the 610 Magnolia Wine Studio in Louisville. Food prepared by Edward Lee (worthy of an entire post on its own merits - incredible chef) and paired with a (I think Jefferson's Reserve was used) Julep concept cocktail using jalapeno simple syrup during hors-d'oeuvres, Jefferson's reserve, Jefferson's Chef's Collaboration, and Jefferson's Ocean II.

The cocktail was excellent and leaned savory over sweet. The Jefferson's Reserve was standard (had a bottle or two over the past few years). I've passed on the Chef's Collaboration a couple of times for the price and tasted no reason to change my mind. The Ocean II color was similar to the standard JR, but the lighting and lack of a decent white backdrop made it tough to be accurate, light body, thin legs. Nose had alcohol up front, a little honeysuckle, followed by light caramel and mild oak. Mild burn on entry fading to caramel and vanilla, rolling over sides of the tongue started picking up the oak and a little sweet dark chocolate, under the tongue getting a little more toasted oak - a little more age in the taste than expected from the visual. Finish was medium, staying with woody character but never moving all the way to bitter, right at the end almost got a little salt, pretty sure that was the power of suggestion. My wife gave me half of hers which had a single ice cube, but I didn't notice any real change. My real problem was tasting it 3 drinks and 4 meal courses in, difficult to be sure how my palate had been affected, despite having plenty of water.

Price point around here is supposed to be $69.99. It was a nice bourbon, but I would need a second clean palate tasting before pulling the trigger. If I saw a bottle I might get it as a novelty/one-off type purchase, but won't go searching for it. Don't want to disparage it without another try but it didn't jump out at me initially. My gut says just stick with the Jefferson's Reserve for the QPR.

Trey was there and is very smooth and professional in person. Provided various anecdotal tidbits throughout the evening. Supposedly 1 or 2 of the new make Ocean I barrels burst on the deck of his friend's (Clay?) shark research vessel and that is why the second Ocean was aged product. He also speculated (as postulated by TANSTAAFL's post) that early Kentucky Bourbon being shipped on the river to New Orleans benefited by agitation combined with aging - gave his opinion that the journey could take 10-12 months. He made his case for blending by pointing out that the large distillers had a pretty good handle on bourbon making and he didn't need to re-invent the wheel, just pick the right barrels and trust his palate.

Sorry I didn't do a better job of taking tasting notes, but there was a lot of conversation, presentation, and some amazing food. I'm not a slender fellow, so I got a little distracted.

Joel

[Harry in WashDC]

You need not apologize for not taking notes - your recollections and your observations will do just fine. Thanks for taking the time.

[edit - speaking for myself, of course]

[squire]

Rather than repeat what Harry said I'll just agree with him, thanks Joel.

[tigerlam92]

Agreed. Thanks Joe

[tanstaafl2]

Yes, thanks for the comments. I hopefully will eventually get one I suppose once Georgia has caught up with the rest of the country and be able to compare it some Jefferson's and other bourbons.

Did he give any indication how long the Ocean II was on the ship? Was the 10-12 months a reference to this or was it how long he supposed barrels might have spent on a barge drifting down to New Orleans and beyond? I wasn't quite clear on that.

[BAO]

Did he give any indication how long the Ocean II was on the ship? Was the 10-12 months a reference to this or was it how long he supposed barrels might have spent on a barge drifting down to New Orleans and beyond? I wasn't quite clear on that.

The bourbon guy blog said 10 months at sea and the Jefferson's twitter account is confirming that number to people who ask.

[tanstaafl2]

The bourbon guy blog said 10 months at sea and the Jefferson's twitter account is confirming that number to people who ask.