John Hall Cashes Out-In

[T Comp]

Make room Wild Turkey as Campari is buying Forty Creek.

http://whiskyadvocate.com/whisky/2014/03/12/campari-buys-forty-creek/

[MyOldKyDram]

Sure hope Daryl Oates gets his, too.

[Richnimrod]

Congrat's to John Hall. Glad he's getting what he wants. I wonder if some of the brands that made the reputation will (ever?) be available down here in Michigan. The little we get is good; but the exceptional stuff doesn't show up.

[TunnelTiger]

Maybe, just maybe we can start getting some BP rye!!

[Josh]

I hope this means better distribution for Forty Creek products. We only get the regular Forty Creek here.

[portwood]

For those hoping for positive news coming out of Forty Creek post June 2nd, just remember all the positive things out of Wild Turkey since Campari has owned them.

I think only one thing may be a given: more distribution outside Canada. On the other hand, more distribution means stocks get stretched, and that means .................. (you fill-in the blank)

[Josh]

Anxiously awaiting a new Forty Creek Small Batch Single Barrel.

[portwood]

Anxiously awaiting a new Forty Creek Small Batch Single Barrel.

Don't hold your breath

[Josh]

Don't hold your breath

It's a joke, son.

[HighInTheMtns]

Anxiously awaiting a new Forty Creek Small Batch Single Barrel.

At least when they change the proof to 81 it will be an increase.

If I drank Forty Creek I'd be scared about this change. Campari sucks.

[portwood]

At least when they change the proof to 81 it will be an increase.

If I drank Forty Creek I'd be scared about this change. Campari sucks.

Campari doesn't get nearly the same hate as the likes of Diageo in the Scotch circles* but from reading this board and the lack of love for WT I'd say its probably the worst possible buyer for FC as far as whisky nerds are concerned.

As I said up-thread the only positive to come out of this will be increased distribution outside Canada. I don't see quality going anywhere but down**. The upside is that prices aren't likely to go up (much) since they're already near the top for the category.

* they only own Glen Grant which is nearly irrelevant as far as single malts go.

** Under John Hall, FC has been lauded as one of the best quality Canadian whiskies around. I don't think JH will be around very long, so what are the chances it will get better without him?

Edited March 12, 2014 by portwood

[MyOldKyDram]

Wonder when we'll get a Canadian/Bourbon blend called Forgive, eh?

[HighInTheMtns]

Wonder when we'll get a Canadian/Bourbon blend called Forgive, eh?

One day, a Canadian teamster accidentally drove a tanker truck full of fully matured, 80 proof Forty Creek to Lawrenceburg, where a foolish warehouseman accidentally poured it into a tank containing the finest 13 year old 91 proof WT. They were going to fire him, but then Campari realized what a marketing bonanza it could be and bottled the 85.5 proof blend. Somehow there is enough of the accidental blend that this bottle will be available for years to come (I'm guessing that it was the same tank they used to batch WT-03-RB.)

[Richnimrod]

You's guys!!! Jee Whiz give 'em a break, at least 'til they actually screw up the actual product(s).

Here's hoping that takes a good long time, eh?

[Max Power]

You's guys!!! Jee Whiz give 'em a break, at least 'til they actually screw up the actual product(s).

Here's hoping that takes a good long time, eh?

[Paddy]

You's guys!!! Jee Whiz give 'em a break, at least 'til they actually screw up the actual product(s).

I can't go for that...nooooeooo, no can do.... :grin:

[kaiserhog]

As long as John Hall has control, we will be fine. The question is will the bean counters and marketers let him maintain control and for how long.

[TunnelTiger]

Wonder when we'll get a Canadian/Bourbon blend called Forgive, eh?

[Gillman]

Glad for the owners to have done well from the business, however IMO Forty Creek's whiskeys, while important to push the envelope of the Canadian norm, did not (or so far) create a new template, did not produce something to rival a good bourbon or straight rye, or single malt. The products largely retain a Canadian approach but with more oomph; perhaps that very characteristic is what attracted the buyer.

Gary

[portwood]

Glad for the owners to have done well from the business, however IMO Forty Creek's whiskeys, while important to push the envelope of the Canadian norm, did not (or so far) create a new template, did not produce something to rival a good bourbon or straight rye, or single malt. The products largely retain a Canadian approach but with more oomph; perhaps that very characteristic is what attracted the buyer.

Gary

Hallelujah!!!

Everytime I say words to that effect on other forums or twitter, the fanatics shout me down and say I'm a Canadian whisky hater. How can you criticize "the man". Maybe now that FC will no longer be just a little independent "craft" yada yada producer, more people will come out and say it like it is. Facts are, for all the stuff JH did, none of it was that unique (even for Canada) and he stuck to tried and true Canadian whisky norms: blending, low abv, chill filtration. Even the annual limited edition releases where he could have really been diff (high abv, single barrel, etc) stuck to the formula!

In the end, though, good for him for making a bucket load of money for his investors. Me thinks he sold at the right time. He may go down in history as an even better business man than a distiller!

Edited March 15, 2014 by portwood

[squire]

For years I appreciated what Mr. Hall was doing and how he was doing it though I phased out use of his products about 4-5 years ago along with any other whisky (Bourbon, Rye, Malt) that had been aged or finished in a wine cask.

[portwood]

For years I appreciated what Mr. Hall was doing and how he was doing ...

One of the things that turned me off on FC and JH was his implication that what he was doing/does is unique in Canada.

He talks about "meritage" (he started in the wine business) as a different approach to the American whiskey style mash bill. In contrast to American whisky, he distills and ages the grains separately. He also uses different char levels to age each of the grains. PROBLEM is, he's NOT the only Canadian distiller that does this. Yes, there is some mash bill style distilling in Canada (where the grains are combined and fermented together) BUT a lot of Canadian whisky (if not the majority) is distilled the same way as FC!!! Blending the aged grain whiskies is NOT unique to FC. The other guys may not call it "mariage" and may not put the blend back in the barrel for finishing (including fancy ex-wine barrels) but they also do it.

JH is a very hard working distiller and a great marketer. Kudos to him for building a great brand, but he turned me off when he pretends his methods are unique in the Canadian industry

[squire]

I appreciated the fact he provided me with a choice away from the usual Canadian Blends and I'll leave to the experts on Canadians to determine who gets credit for what.

[Gillman]

He should get credit for making Canadian whisky tastier than it was but in every version of Forty Creek I've had, you can still taste the grain whisky element, and the finish is relatively short. I'm with Portwood.

Everything is incremental. John Hall did good work in his time. I look forward to a new generation of Canadian whisky-makers to take the palate further. Lot 40 and Masterson's can show the way.

Gary

Edited March 15, 2014 by Gillman