My 14 carat Pappy

[tmas]

Well, I apologize in advance to those who will consider me a soulless creature for saying so, but I am not a person who can afford to pop $1,300 dollar bottles.

So I was just wondering if any forumites have attempted to sell a bottle of 20 Yr Pappy, which, as I am sure everyone knows, is now worth that much in the aftermarket.

[Quantum]

If you have a bottle that you paid less than $1,300 for, then of course you can afford to pop that bad boy open!

I have not tried to sell one, but my wife did a little perusing to try to find one for my birthday. She couldn't find any pappy, but she did end up finding a bottle of Glenfiddich 30 for half of the average current price. Does this mean I can't afford to open it, or that I can't afford not to open it?

[tmas]

If you have a bottle that you paid less than $1,300 for, then of course you can afford to pop that bad boy open!

I have not tried to sell one, but my wife did a little perusing to try to find one for my birthday. She couldn't find any pappy, but she did end up finding a bottle of Glenfiddich 30 for half of the average current price. Does this mean I can't afford to open it, or that I can't afford not to open it?

I can understand where you're coming from, but it's a bit different, if someone gives you a gift it would be rather dismissive to then turn around and sell it. You open it and enjoy it in the spirit it was given.

On the other hand, my bottle was bought by me, also, I've had the opportunity to enjoy Pappy 20 a couple of years ago when my brother gave me a bottle for Christmas. So being that I've had the Pappy 20 and there are no gift or sentimental complications, it just comes down to whether or not there is over $1,000. dollars worth of enjoyment value in drinking the bottle or whether that $1,000. can deliver more usefulness and enjoyment elsewhere. Bottom line I can buy a bunch of fine bourbon and have a big wad of dollars left if I sell it; and the presumably well healed person I sell it to will get his or her money's worth in a rare experience that they can also share with fellow aficianodos.

[BonVivant84]

I can understand where you're coming from, but it's a bit different, if someone gives you a gift it would be rather dismissive to then turn around and sell it. You open it and enjoy it in the spirit it was given.

On the other hand, my bottle was bought by me, also, I've had the opportunity to enjoy Pappy 20 a couple of years ago when my brother gave me a bottle for Christmas. So being that I've had the Pappy 20 and there are no gift or sentimental complications, it just comes down to whether or not there is over $1,000. dollars worth of enjoyment value in drinking the bottle or whether that $1,000. can deliver more usefulness and enjoyment elsewhere. Bottom line I can buy a bunch of fine bourbon and have a big wad of dollars left if I sell it; and the presumably well healed person I sell it to will get his or her money's worth in a rare experience that they can also share with fellow aficianodos.

What i dont understand is where you think $1300 is something it normally goes for even secondary. I understand there are hundreds of listings ASKING insane prices, but not necessarly selling them. There is a bottle on NYC Craigslist right now fora 20yr at $650.....a 15 for $450 (and has been there for days) There is tons and tons of Pappy in NYC. Every shop jacked up their price and now have them on display like a fucking trophy.

Sorry to sound heated under collar but it really seems like your looking to rip someone off and frankly if someone paid that much you WOULD be ripping a chump off (or well healed person as you called them)

And lets not confuse aficianodos with jack ass with too much money who read an article titled "Bourbon even Millionaires cant Get" . People are entitled to spend their money how they want, that doesent absolve you from shitty action that is ripping someone off......no matter how lazy / ignorant / rich they are.

[whiskeyagonzo]

I can understand where you're coming from, but it's a bit different, if someone gives you a gift it would be rather dismissive to then turn around and sell it. You open it and enjoy it in the spirit it was given.

On the other hand, my bottle was bought by me, also, I've had the opportunity to enjoy Pappy 20 a couple of years ago when my brother gave me a bottle for Christmas. So being that I've had the Pappy 20 and there are no gift or sentimental complications, it just comes down to whether or not there is over $1,000. dollars worth of enjoyment value in drinking the bottle or whether that $1,000. can deliver more usefulness and enjoyment elsewhere. Bottom line I can buy a bunch of fine bourbon and have a big wad of dollars left if I sell it; and the presumably well healed person I sell it to will get his or her money's worth in a rare experience that they can also share with fellow aficianodos.

I'm no expert but $1000 for 20? Seems a bit inflated even in this market but if you have some one lined up willing, why not? You are right that one could have many more bottles and still have some cash left over for that kind of coin.

[HighInTheMtns]

OP: you've been a member here since 2005. You should certainly know by now that discussion of black market pricing is not a topic that's smiled upon. C'mon man!

If you haven't had any before, open it and drink it. You won't be any worse off for it than you were yesterday.

[docbible]

I have enjoyed many bottles of PVW 15 and 20 over the years and built up a stash long before the craze because I like what was in the bottle prior to 2010. Just because it is listed at $1300 does not mean it is selling at list price. No one is beating down my door with $1000+ offers, only the people who want to have it at $100. I'll enjoy it myself and share a taste with friends rather than let someone else get rich. tim

[tmas]

What i dont understand is where you think $1300 is something it normally goes for even secondary. I understand there are hundreds of listings ASKING insane prices, but not necessarly selling them. There is a bottle on NYC Craigslist right now fora 20yr at $650.....a 15 for $450 (and has been there for days) There is tons and tons of Pappy in NYC. Every shop jacked up their price and now have them on display like a fucking trophy.

Sorry to sound heated under collar but it really seems like your looking to rip someone off and frankly if someone paid that much you WOULD be ripping a chump off (or well healed person as you called them)

And lets not confuse aficianodos with jack ass with too much money who read an article titled "Bourbon even Millionaires cant Get" . People are entitled to spend their money how they want, that doesent absolve you from shitty action that is ripping someone off......no matter how lazy / ignorant / rich they are.

Whoa! I think you misunderstand me. The price I mentioned came from the latest article of Fortune Magazine which I received about 10 days ago. Before receiving the magazine I had no idea that "bourbon insanity" had reached the level it has, in the Fortune Article they mention up to $1,395. as the current aftermarket value of the Pappy 20. I mentioned it on SB to get some feedback (not to sell it through the site).

As far as me ripping anyone off, if I did sell it I would simply want the average price that the market will bear. After all, don't most people sell something for it's market value? The most meaningful definition of value is " whatever someone is willing to pay" for something.

I must say I don't agree with your opinion that someone buying Pappy 20 for big $ is a "chump" or a "jack ass". Everyone's means are different. Who 'am I to say that someone to whom $1,000+ is no big deal is a fool for doing with it as he or she prefers? I mean I personally can't afford to go in a restaurant and pay $2,000. for a bottle of Napa Cabernet, but plenty of folks do, because they can and they want to. Is Oprah Winfrey a jack ass when she buys a purse for $30,000? Hey it's her money, if she prefers to buy a purse for $30,000 rather than giving it to charity that's her choice and right and it doesn't make her a jack ass.

[BonVivant84]

Whoa! I think you misunderstand me. The price I mentioned came from the latest article of Fortune Magazine which I received about 10 days ago. Before receiving the magazine I had no idea that "bourbon insanity" had reached the level it has, in the Fortune Article they mention up to $1,395. as the current aftermarket value of the Pappy 20. I mentioned it on SB to get some feedback (not to sell it through the site).

As far as me ripping anyone off, if I did sell it I would simply want the average price that the market will bear. After all, don't most people sell something for it's market value? The most meaningful definition of value is " whatever someone is willing to pay" for something.

I must say I don't agree with your opinion that someone buying Pappy 20 for big $ is a "chump" or a "jack ass". Everyone's means are different. Who 'am I to say that someone to whom $1,000+ is no big deal is a fool for doing with it as he or she prefers? I mean I personally can't afford to go in a restaurant and pay $2,000. for a bottle of Napa Cabernet, but plenty of folks do, because they can and they want to. Is Oprah Winfrey a jack ass when she buys a purse for $30,000? Hey it's her money, if she prefers to buy a purse for $30,000 rather than giving it to charity that's her choice and right and it doesn't make her a jack ass.

Except fortune magazine is wrong, and you are wrong about market value and $1300 is NOT the average price the market bears. Those numbers ONLY work if you use what people are listing it at. 10 minutes of searching around secondary market you can find an average of what it’s SELLING at (tops is $750) to MOST people. Of course somewhere a uninformed soul who did no research and just bought the first thing they saw at whatever the asking price has happened...but it is not the norm (Even in NYC which arguably has some of the highest secondary market prices)

now your examples. If you go to a restaurant a buy a $2K bottle of Napa Cabernet does this make you a fool....NO......If you could go to several other restaurants of equal caliber and purchase the same said bottle for $1K and yet you still buy the $2K bottle........Yes you are a fool. Might be because your lazy / ignorant but a fool none the less

Of course Oprah can spend her $30k on whatever she would like. Even a purse. But again, if she could stroll down the same block and purchase that bag $15K and you don’t......yes you are a chump.

My point is if you charge someone and they buy a bottle of 20 year PVW from you (a black market seller who could be shady) for $1300 when in Manhattan you can stroll into a legitimate shop and pay (yes a still way mark up price) for $750 ........then yes you are ripping them off and they are a chump. You would only be getting $1300 because the person is ill informed not because it holds true value. And that to me sounds like taking advantage of someone

Edited March 18, 2014 by BonVivant84

[tmas]

Except fortune magazine is wrong, and you are wrong about market value and $1300 is NOT the average price the market bears. Those numbers ONLY work if you use what people are listing it at. 10 minutes of searching around secondary market you can find an average of what it’s SELLING at (tops is $750) to MOST people. Of course somewhere a uninformed soul who did no research and just bought the first thing they saw at whatever the asking price has happened...but it is not the norm (Even in NYC which arguably has some of the highest secondary market prices)

now your examples. If you go to a restaurant a buy a $2K bottle of Napa Cabernet does this make you a fool....NO......If you could go to several other restaurants of equal caliber and purchase the same said bottle for $1K and yet you still buy the $2K bottle........Yes you are a fool. Might be because your lazy / ignorant but a fool none the less

Of course Oprah can spend her $30k on whatever she would like. Even a purse. But again, if she could stroll down the same block and purchase that bag $15K and you don’t......yes you are a chump.

My point is if you charge someone and they buy a bottle of 20 year PVW from you (a black market seller who could be shady) for $1300 when in Manhattan you can stroll into a legitimate shop and pay (yes a still way mark up price) for $750 ........then yes you are ripping them off and they are a chump. You would only be getting $1300 because the person is ill informed not because it holds true value. And that to me sounds like taking advantage of someone

[HighInTheMtns]

tmas, go read the New User Guidelines announcement in the New to SB forum. Your question isn't a welcome topic here.

Pappy 20 costs something like $130 retail. To me, it isn't even worth that.

Drink your whiskey, errbody.

[tmas]

tmas, go read the New User Guidelines announcement in the New to SB forum. Your question isn't a welcome topic here.

Pappy 20 costs something like $130 retail. To me, it isn't even worth that.

Drink your whiskey, errbody.

[tylermke]

tmas, go read the New User Guidelines announcement in the New to SB forum. Your question isn't a welcome topic here.

Pappy 20 costs something like $130 retail. To me, it isn't even worth that.

Drink your whiskey, errbody.

[danz]

tmas, is that Fortune article with the funny pricing the recent one by Clay Risen on the "bourbon boom"? He is a regular here and I was also curious how they chose the prices they list in the article.

[No_Reception]

It's worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. Period.

[HighInTheMtns]

It's worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. Period.

It's illegal to sell a bottle of alcohol without a license.

It's worth drinking. Period.

[AaronWF]

Just remember, bottles from 2009 or earlier are much more tasty than the recent bottlings...

[Dannabis]

It's illegal to sell a bottle of alcohol without a license.

It's worth drinking. Period.

This hits the nail on the head. The aftermarket value is enjoyment and not currency, unless there is some sort of licensed broker involved.. I dunno that they exist.

[squire]

The aftermarket value is enjoyment and not currency, unless there is some sort of licensed broker involved.. I dunno that they exist.

They exist in the form of auction houses who are properly licensed to sell alcohol. It is illegal for an individual to sell to anyone.

[kjbeggs]

Pappy 20 costs something like $130 retail. To me, it isn't even worth that.

Drink your whiskey, errbody.

In the current market, (retail) Pappy 20 is worth every bit of the $120 I paid for my bottle last year. Because, I personally like it better than any other Bourbon I've had. (I've never had the 15).

I'll admit, when all the stories hit about the outrageous prices people were paying, it made it harder for me to crack that bottle open. I looked at it the same way, selling one bottle could potentially give me the $$$ to buy 10 other great ones.

But I bought that pappy to drink, so that's what I'm doing. (And if I can't afford some other bourbon as a result, so be it).

I don't have an issue with someone selling a bottle because they get an offer they can't refuse. I have a problem with people who mess things up for the rest of us by trying to get their hands on things with the intent to flip it for a profit. They're as annoying as ticket scalpers.

[tmas]

tmas, is that Fortune article with the funny pricing the recent one by Clay Risen on the "bourbon boom"? He is a regular here and I was also curious how they chose the prices they list in the article.

Yep Danz, that's the one.

[HighInTheMtns]

In the current market, (retail) Pappy 20 is worth every bit of the $120 I paid for my bottle last year. Because, I personally like it better than any other Bourbon I've had. (I've never had the 15).

I'll admit, when all the stories hit about the outrageous prices people were paying, it made it harder for me to crack that bottle open. I looked at it the same way, selling one bottle could potentially give me the $$$ to buy 10 other great ones.

But I bought that pappy to drink, so that's what I'm doing. (And if I can't afford some other bourbon as a result, so be it).

I don't have an issue with someone selling a bottle because they get an offer they can't refuse. I have a problem with people who mess things up for the rest of us by trying to get their hands on things with the intent to flip it for a profit. They're as annoying as ticket scalpers.

Word.

I last paid $100 for PVW20, in 2009, which is the most I've ever paid for any bottle of whiskey. It was great, I thoroughly enjoyed it. I also wasn't heartbroken when it was gone; it's far down my list of "best thing I've ever tasted." I'll cross that $100 line eventually, I'm sure, but it will not be for PVW20. That's just a subjective thing... Glad you were able to get one, glad you opened it, glad you dig it... And I hope you get some 15 soon, it's my pick of the two. Cheers!

[393foureyedfox]

I have a problem with people who mess things up for the rest of us by trying to get their hands on things with the intent to flip it for a profit. They're as annoying as ticket scalpers.

this couldnt be said any better

[tmas]

this couldnt be said any better

............. +1

[whiskeyagonzo]

Word.

I last paid $100 for PVW20, in 2009, which is the most I've ever paid for any bottle of whiskey. It was great, I thoroughly enjoyed it. I also wasn't heartbroken when it was gone; it's far down my list of "best thing I've ever tasted." I'll cross that $100 line eventually, I'm sure, but it will not be for PVW20. That's just a subjective thing... Glad you were able to get one, glad you opened it, glad you dig it... And I hope you get some 15 soon, it's my pick of the two. Cheers!

I've had a similar experience with PVW20. Not that great IMHO. I can't help but wonder if people are actually drinking it with blinders. I keep hoping that the flippers get caught with a load of it and can't give it away. Here's to wishful thinking.