Four Roses Single Barrel BiB?

[brettckeen]

So tonight at Bernie Lubbers Bonded class I brought up the question which I'd like to bring to the forum.

If the BiB requirements for a bourbon are 4yrs minimum 100 proof 1 season etc... Then couldn't Four Roses Single Barrel (standard 100 proof product) meet the requirments for BiB? That is assuming there were no co-mingling of barrels from other seasons as the barrel aged.

Further if it met these requirements, does not adding BiB a marketing decision?

[Trey Manthey]

They could probably use it without much fuss (are their warehouses bonded?), but BiB doesn't really mean much to consumers these days, so why bother with designing a label to include it?

[VAGentleman]

Yes they could. I could be wrong but don't all whiskey warehouses have to be bonded?

[Richnimrod]

Interesting questions and suppositions. I too, wonder if it isn't by nature, and accepted description a 'default' BIB, even though not described as such on the label. The question about bonded warehouses seems to me to be the key to the answer.

Anybody know if 4-R (or all in general) rickhouses are bonded? :skep:

[Restaurant man]

All rickhouses are bonded. Four Roses doesn't want to use the term. It's an old fashioned term. We don't exactly have to protect our whiskey from rectifiers anymore (just a lack of corporate integrity). The term 'single barrel' Satisfies people nowadays.

[Dannabis]

I find it unlikely.

the BIB regs are very specific and BIB indicates extra effort/specific quality.

I believe it would be labeled as BIB , if it could be.

BIB is not just any whiskey in new oak cooperage for 4yrs+ and bottled at exactly 100 proof with no additives for color or flavoring.. must be aged in a warehouse under supervision of a government bondsman.

if it meets all other reqs but was not under govt supervision in a bonded warehouse than it is certainly not BIB.

Why would a producer not label something they had to go to extra efforts for?

[callmeox]

I've been to many distilleries and rickhouses and not once have I encountered a government bondsmen.

I believe that "bonded" warehouses where only a government agent hold the keys are a thing of the distant past. Even the warehouse at Heaven Hill where barrel selections are done is labeled very plainly as a bonded warehouse (and it is also a part of their tours.)

As to why FR doesn't label as bonded when it meets the specs?

They don't want to.

Edited March 20, 2014 by callmeox

[Josh]

As to why FR doesn't label as bonded when it meets the specs?

They don't want to.

[393foureyedfox]

Exactly. They meet all the regulation requirements to be BiB, but they choose not to.

This is just speculation, but perhaps some of it has to do with the position of 4RSB on the upper shelf. Most casual bourbon drinkers (and the TTB apparently) don't know what it means. Those bourbon drinkers who do know what it means associate it mostly with value mid to lower shelfers like Rittenhouse, VOB, OGD, J.T.S. Brown and the like. The only products that are labeled BiB on upper shelves are the McKenna Single Barrel and the Col Taylor 100 proofers. The Taylors are an exception because the BiB designation goes along with the old timey packaging and marketing. The McKenna is good but doesn't exactly fly off the shelves at least around here. So maybe the lack of BiB on the label is an effort to make sure potential buyers know this is the good stuff not "table bourbon".

[Restaurant man]

i imagine this is the reason, more than anything else. around here at least, most of the 100 proof stuff on the lower shelf are BIB's, an association 4R likely doesnt want.

Kind of ironic isn't it. BIB was used to identify the good stuff

[squire]

Any single barrel Bourbon of 100 proof or higher has met the BIB requirements whether the maker chooses to use the designation or not.

[393foureyedfox]

Any single barrel Bourbon of 100 proof or higher has met the BIB requirements whether the maker chooses to use the designation or not.

I thought so too, until last week, when someone posted the technical rules. BIB is 100 proof only, not 'at least 100'. So for instance, KC might be a BIB depending on barrels selected (distiller and season), but you would think KCSB (being single barrel, 9yo, and 120 proof) might better meet the requirements as it is a 9YO single barrel, but the 120 proof kills it.

[squire]

True about the 100 proof to have BIB on the label which also shows what the distillers of a century ago considered the proper proof for Bourbon. I was just pointing out that any single barrel by definition is the product of one distiller, one season, etc.

[jburlowski]

IMO, the BiB designation is an anachronism and has little or no meaning to the average consumer. It certainly has no impact on the conetnts being "the good stuff".

[P&MLiquorsEric]

IMO, the BiB designation is an anachronism and has little or no meaning to the average consumer. It certainly has no impact on the conetnts being "the good stuff".

Agreed. Same with the "old" moniker. The biggest brands that the average consumer associates with quality do not contain either.

Granted most couldn't label themselves BIB. BIB used to mean quality to the average consumer , now marketing dollars spent equates quality.

[HighInTheMtns]

I've been to many distilleries and rickhouses and not once have I encountered a government bondsmen.

That's only 'cause the government dude was sneaking around stealing whiskey from all the best barrels.

[savagehenry]

BIB only seems interesting to me if the bottle is under $20.

[Paddy]

BIB only seems interesting to me if the bottle is under $20.

And that is exactly why FRSB does not have a BIB designation on the label.

[brettckeen]

I thought so too, until last week, when someone posted the technical rules. BIB is 100 proof only, not 'at least 100'. So for instance, KC might be a BIB depending on barrels selected (distiller and season),

KC being such a large distributed product, I'd doubt they are using just one season......

[brettckeen]

And that is exactly why FRSB does not have a BIB designation on the label.

I think that's what I was getting at. It is a marketign decision. But with CEHT BiB on the upper shelves and if you look in the past and VOFs being BiB, it is not unreasonable in the feature to have premium BiBs above their lower price point cousins.

[brettckeen]

Agreed. Same with the "old" moniker. The biggest brands that the average consumer associates with quality do not contain either.

Granted most couldn't label themselves BIB. BIB used to mean quality to the average consumer , now marketing dollars spent equates quality.

I think these tastes are changing because of evangelism of cocktologists.