Where's all the aged wheated bourbon barrels

[tigerlam92]

I would think by now Buffalo Trace and Heaven Hill should have a lot more available 10 year or older good wheated bourbon sitting in barrels.

Is that their output has increased but the demand had out grown what they had anticipated or are they holding back?

Another example is why isn't HH coming out with more like PHC4th at 10 year or even at 15 year?

[jwacky]

This year's PHC is going to be a 13 year, barrel proof wheat whiskey. They've also made mention of adding a 7 Year age statement to Bernheim Straight Wheat.

[tigerlam92]

This year's PHC is going to be a 13 year, barrel proof wheat whiskey. They've also made mention of adding a 7 Year age statement to Bernheim Straight Wheat.

That's true but it's not wheated bourbon exactly. The Bernheim Straight Wheat is ~51% wheat instead of at least 51% corn with a wheat grain component instead of rye.

Hahaha. I also thought and tried to like Bernheim Straight Wheat but the bottle I drank wasn't that great for me.

Edited April 8, 2014 by tigerlam92

[jwacky]

That's true but it's not wheated bourbon exactly. The Bernheim Straight Wheat is ~51% wheat instead of at least 51% corn with a wheat grain component instead of rye.

Hahaha. I also thought and tried to like Bernheim Straight Wheat but the bottle I drank wasn't that great for me.

Yeah, I realized you'd meant wheated bourbon - and not wheat whiskey - after I posted that. Guess HH is just dumping it all in to Larceny?

[squire]

Doesn't that presuppose everything on hand fits the Larceny profile?

[jwacky]

Doesn't that presuppose everything on hand fits the Larceny profile?

I suppose that would presuppose that.

Casual observations are that they are doing away with many of their wheated bourbon lines at/near the same time as Larceny was introduced. I've thought that a lot of their lower shelf wheated offerings have tasted very similar, but some of those 'pieces' likely went in to Larceny as well, I would think. So if they've got all the 'pieces', surely they can do away with some of the offerings and blend them to the Larceny profile. If it's selling well, no need to age it when you can cash in now.

Or maybe they are holding some back.

Just speculatin'.

[jwacky]

From Heaven Hill, through Bourbon&Banter blog:

• Larceny is drawn from barrels that have aged from 6 to 12 years at this high storage, and is bottled at a full-bodied 92 proof, or 46% alcohol by volume
  

So that would explain some of the aging wheated bourbon, no?

http://www.bourbonbanter.com/bourbon-reviews/heaven-hill-larceny-bourbon-review/

[squire]

Hey, if it works for gumbo . . .

[ramblinman]

Maybe HH is just trying to find a blend of their wheaters that people like?

I think I'm in the minority here (and maybe everywhere?). I like pretty much everything else from HH I've ever had, but their wheated stuff doesn't do it for me at all.

Haven't ever tried hard to figure out what I'm not getting from them that I get from the Weller line.

[bourbonfoot]

Maybe HH is just trying to find a blend of their wheaters that people like?

I think I'm in the minority here (and maybe everywhere?). I like pretty much everything else from HH I've ever had, but their wheated stuff doesn't do it for me at all.

Haven't ever tried hard to figure out what I'm not getting from them that I get from the Weller line.

I'm in agreement. I like Larceny, I guess I like VSOF12 (but not for the price), and I like OFBIB a lot (mainly for the price). On the flip side I really enjoy EWSB, love EC12, LOVE ECBP. There's something about the HH profile for non-wheaters that carries over to the wheaters that I just don't care for.

[squire]

Not a big fan of HH wheaters myself either, just doesn't seem to be their thing.

[jwacky]

Maybe HH is just trying to find a blend of their wheaters that people like?

I think I'm in the minority here (and maybe everywhere?). I like pretty much everything else from HH I've ever had, but their wheated stuff doesn't do it for me at all.

Haven't ever tried hard to figure out what I'm not getting from them that I get from the Weller line.

I like Larceny but have never gone back for more of any other of their sub-$20 offerings.

[tigerlam92]

That's the thing.

Where are the barrels similar to the PHC4th? that are aging at HH that most of us were excited about.

Where are the barrels from BT? PVW releases are so small.

Since everything at the distillery are logged and recorded, is there a count of how many wheated barrels they have in their rack house and is that information available to the public?

[Richnimrod]

... is there a count of how many wheated barrels they have in their rack house and is that information available to the public?

Probably YES. Probably NO. The distilleries, in my experience don't give that sort of info out; but I'm pretty sure they know what they're storing. I imagine they fear a competitor being able to predict what might be released, and when, and be able to 'one-up' the release.... but, hey; ask the question of anyone who might answer. You might get a surprise.... and even an answer.

[smknjoe]

Is that their output has increased but the demand had out grown what they had anticipated?

I think you answered your own question.

This has been addressed with the "BT, W12, ETL, OWA Shortage" threads. A few distilleries may have increased production ~10 years ago, but not enough to support the sudden and explosive growth in demand that they have experienced over the last 2-4 years in particular. Hence the "regional and sporadic" shortages of just about anything popular on the mid-shelf and up.

[squire]

Since everything at the distillery are logged and recorded, is there a count of how many wheated barrels they have in their rack house and is that information available to the public?

Of course there is, Federal Law requires strict record keeping of the amount of alcohol produced and the distillers know exactly what recipe and where stored. No disclosure requirement though except to the Treasury Dept.

Edited April 9, 2014 by squire

[smokinjoe]

OK, we all know where the secret hoard of wheated bourbon barrels are...But if we say here, then Guy will know...So, mums the word!!!

[jburlowski]

The good news is that Sazerac is apparently coming out with the 1792 wheated bourbon from the former Barton distillery. Should be tasty stuff..... but at what price?

[Restaurant man]

OK, we all know where the secret hoard of wheated bourbon barrels are...But if we say here, then Guy will know...So, mums the word!!!

[White Dog]

The good news is that Sazerac is apparently coming out with the 1792 wheated bourbon from the former Barton distillery. Should be tasty stuff..... but at what price?

I pray it's less than $50.

I feel that another issue, besides the unanticipated Boom, is that most of the decision makers in Kentucky seem to have a prejudice against Wheaters. Does anyone else ever get this sense?

[squire]

Yes I do, it would seem there are those who regard wheaters as someone who must be invited to the wedding because they're family but we'll seat 'em at a table in the back.

[Quantum]

Is it that they dislike wheaters, or would they rather stick to what they know, when that has been working for them for years? Is there some trepidation regarding mass producing a wheated bourbon that ages well? BT is turning out some pretty high quality wheaters in low quantities, but their high volumes labels have taken a dive in quality. I understand trying to meet the increase in demand has had the largest impact, but I am wondering if it is just a little bit harder to produce and age wheated bourbon in larger quantities.

I imagine it would be a bit of a bummer if you decided to reallocate a significant amount of resources to wheated bourbon, and then 7 years later realize that most of it tastes like moose sweat, and is not getting any better.

[cowdery]

"I would think by now Buffalo Trace and Heaven Hill should have a lot more available 10 year or older good wheated bourbon sitting in barrels.

"Is that their output has increased but the demand had out grown what they had anticipated or are they holding back?

"Another example is why isn't HH coming out with more like PHC4th at 10 year or even at 15 year?"

Let me make sure I have the premise right here. You think HH and BT should have more whiskey than they seem to have? Why do you think that? And what do you mean by 'holding back'? What are you suggesting they might be doing? It's unclear, but it sure sounds sinister.

If your distillery plans to have a certain amount of 10-year-old bourbon ready to sell in ten years, then you can't very well sell all of it when it's four years old, can you? Even if there is enough demand, you can't sell it all because then you won't have enough when it should be turning ten, so in that sense of course they're 'holding back,' but you seem to suggest some secret stash, beyond the normal production planning. Whatever for? Why would they be doing this? Is it part of a secret plan for world domination?

Guess I'm saying your basic premise just doesn't make a lot of sense, based on an 'impression' unfounded in anything factual. Whiskey distilleries make a product that gets aged and it doesn't always get aged the same amount. Whiskey distilleries plan their production very carefully and they are constantly making adjustments to conform their stocks to their actual and projected sales. One of the things they carefully avoid is a condition like the one you're suggesting, where they are building up an inventory of aged spirits with no plans to sell them. They certainly wouldn't be doing that on purpose when they try so hard to avoid doing that by accident.

In fact, what they try to do with their adjustments is sell as much whiskey as they can as soon as they can -- that's how they make their money, after all -- when actual demand exceeds projected demand. They adjust to make sure they have enough stock to meet their age targets. That's the only 'holding back' that occurs.

[LCWoody]

All it takes is time. All good things to those that.............