Bourbon Rumors

[squire]

Clay I don't have a problem with the article, the information contained in it or the way it's presented. My difficulty is Fred's assertion that he must accept what he is told by the PR departments until they are proven wrong. That was an unnecessary addendum of his personal viewpoint and is a position with which I strongly disagree.

Parroting PR and stating it must be accepted is a disparagement of the intelligence of the readership.

[smokinjoe]

I'll bet that Jim Rutledge and Mark Brown will be surprised to hear they're in the PR departments!

[squire]

Of course they are Joe, part of their job is to promote the brands through relations with the public. Which is the very defining meaning of personal appearances at dinners, tastings, events, etc., and neither of these gentlemen, along with Jimmy Russel, Fred Noe, Craig Beam, Harlen Wheatley, John Lunn, or anyone else in a similar position going to speak publicly anything other than the company position.

[smokinjoe]

Of course they are Joe, part of their job is to promote the brands through relations with the public. Which is the very defining meaning of personal appearances at dinners, tastings, events, etc., and neither of these gentlemen, along with Jimmy Russel, Fred Noe, Craig Beam, Harlen Wheatley, John Lunn, or anyone else in a similar position going to speak publicly anything other than the company position.

Squire, there is a huge difference in being employed within the PR Department, and performing elements of certain functions within that department. The most important part to those two gentlemen, is the number 0's in their respective pay checks... And, if you think one of the men you listed doesn't step out from a so called "company line", I suggest you re-read the "Mind = Blown" thread.

[squire]

Joe you're correct about pay checks. I'm reminded of the words of Col. Thursday in "She Wore a Yellow Ribbon" when a subordinate mistakenly called him "General" (a brevet rank he held in the Civil War) he snapped, "I'm not a General, Captain. A man is what he's paid for. I'm paid in the rank of Lt. Colonel".

Anyone who draws a pay check from a company and accepts public engagements offered because of their position in that company is engaging in public relations. I don't think any of the gentlemen I mentioned is going to publicly speak against their employer any more than the president of Coca-Cola is going to say he really prefers Pepsi.

[smokinjoe]

Still not employed in the PR department, which is what you said.

[Restaurant man]

I suggest you re-read the "Mind = Blown" thread.

Yes! we all should. Sounds like a nice way to spend an afternoon :laugh:

[cowdery]

Good for Fred, good for Whisky Advocate, and good for all of the producers who answered his questions. Luckily, he didn't have to talk to Diageo.

About the only thing hazy in Fred's piece is that he doesn't seem to know no one cares about Ancient Age 10 Star, which is an unstated six-year-old bourbon, but nothing special. As for pressing Sazerac for sales figures, HA! It's well known that Sazerac and Heaven Hill, as private companies, never release sales figures. Fred shows he is a professional journalist by not asking questions he knows won't be answered. I get criticized for that too, by the same people.

Of course, any source might be lying, but they're rarely going to lie about something so relatively minor and the best way to know if someone is lying is to get them on the record, then find evidence that what they have told you isn't true. That's why this sort of reporting is important, despite it being a pain in the ass to research every stupid rumor you hear.

While it's important to compare evidence to official statements, speculation and suspicion are not evidence, and rumors heard from 'some guy' aren't evidence either. You can also be pretty confident that distributors and retailers aren't being told something different by the producers. They know producers and retailers can't keep a secret. All sorts of bullshit spreads through that channel.

There is also a big difference between an untrue or disingenuous answer and one you simply don't want to hear.

Maker's Mark has never called a product 'new' just because it had a different color wax, or even a different proof for that matter. As far as they're concerned, 46 is what they mean by a new product and by that standard, it's their only new product ever.

I'm the one who's called 'crotchety,' but what Fred did is 1000 times more valuable than a bunch of malcontents who think it's cute to take potshots at people.

Edited April 21, 2014 by cowdery

[squire]

Still not employed in the PR department, which is what you said.

Actually Joe I didn't make that claim, you are the one who made that connection, I was quoting Minnick.

What I did say, and repeated, is a company employee who attends a public function on behalf of his employer is engaging in public relations.

[TunnelTiger]

Actually Joe I didn't make that claim, you are the one who made that connection, I was quoting Minnick.

What I did say, and repeated, is a company employee who attends a public function on behalf of his employer is engaging in public relations.

And that is why it is best if you find yourself in that situation you keep your mouth shut. Unless your daddy owns the company.

[cowdery]

It also bears remembering that Chris Comstock and his team don't have the final word on what happens with Ancient Age products. That's up to Age International. While I'll grant that AA 10-year-old was a very small brand, one can assume that very small volume will henceforth be going into Blantons, Elmer T. Lee or something else more profitable than Ancient Age 10-year-old. But you don't really need anybody to tell you that, do you?

[MauiSon]

Darn, I thought those barrels would show up in another Orphan Barrel program in another ten years or so. :skep:

[smokinjoe]

Actually Joe I didn't make that claim, you are the one who made that connection, I was quoting Minnick.

Edited April 22, 2014 by smokinjoe

[squire]

Deny what? I have never said that any Master Distiller is employed in the PR department of their respective companies.

I have said, and will continue to say, that any MD who participates in public functions as a company representative is engaging in public relations.

[HighInTheMtns]

I'll bet that Jim Rutledge and Mark Brown will be surprised to hear they're in the PR departments!

Of course they are Joe, part of their job is to promote the brands through relations with the public.

Ya'll should stop arguing about semantics anyway. :toast:

[timd]

Ya'll should stop arguing about semantics anyway. :toast:

Hug it out fellas!

[squire]

With the strains of Kumbaya wafting in the background.

[wildrnesxperienc]

Over a glass of AA 10 year old...doh!!