NDPs moving to Distilling

[squire]

is this just more BS or a real plan?

It's whistle pig poo, the groundhog being native to Vermont.

[cowdery]

You should not even mention Whistlepig and Willett in the same breath. Willett is the real thing. Whistlepig is something else.

In general, anyone who says they are going to make a product that's essentially the same as the product they're sourcing is delusional or worse. Lincoln Henderson, with the resources of Brown-Forman behind him, got as close as anyone with Woodford Reserve but even he said it can't be done. Perhaps a better example is Jim Beam white label, which is made at two different distilleries, but is bottled in such large batches that it's relatively easy to match the profile regardless of where produced. Most of the micros I talk to who are also NDPs recognize this. They know the products will be different. Nobody today is talking, as they used to, about transitioning a brand from sourced to house-made.

[TunnelTiger]

Then there is hope for Chattanooga 1816 yet.

[squire]

TT that's a refreshing Little Mary Sunshine approach but I'll believe it when it happens.

[HighHorse]

You should not even mention Whistlepig and Willett in the same breath. Willett is the real thing. Whistlepig is something else.

In general, anyone who says they are going to make a product that's essentially the same as the product they're sourcing is delusional or worse. Lincoln Henderson, with the resources of Brown-Forman behind him, got as close as anyone with Woodford Reserve but even he said it can't be done.

What was Lincoln attempting to replicate?

[Josh]

The first runs of Woodford which were from specially selected barrels of Old Forester.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

[HighInTheMtns]

The first runs of Woodford which were from specially selected barrels of Old Forester.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

Which makes me think...

That distillery in Versailles is just a tourist attraction, isn't it?

[Josh]

The WRMCs are entirely Woodford distillate and bourbon made there does make it into standard WR bottles, although the percentage is an open question.

So I would say mostly a tourist attraction. But it's a pretty good attraction, I think.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

Edited May 2, 2014 by Josh

[cowdery]

Woodford Reserve is Old Forester made at a different distillery. The extent to which it is different results from the inherent differences in both the design of that distillery and its location, and he knew it would be, but Lincoln did everything in his power to make Old Forester at Woodford.

The 'tourist attraction' rap is largely bum, as probably 1/3 of the whiskey sold as Woodford is made at Woodford, and after the coming expansion that percentage might go back up to close to half, then it will slip back to about 1/3 before they have to expand again, so a substantial percentage of Woodford Reserve is and will remain whiskey made there. The amounts are my estimates, which they probably would decline to confirm, and anyone can judge that how they will, but it's not a token amount.

Edited May 3, 2014 by cowdery

[squire]

That distillery in Versailles is just a tourist attraction, isn't it?

Yes and a very profitable one.

[HighInTheMtns]

Woodford Reserve is Old Forester made at a different distillery. The extent to which it is different results from the inherent differences in both the design of that distillery and its location, and he knew it would be, but Lincoln did everything in his power to make Old Forester at Woodford.

The 'tourist attraction' rap is largely bum, as probably 1/3 of the whiskey sold as Woodford is made at Woodford, and after the coming expansion that percentage might go back up to close to half, then it will slip back to about 1/3 before they have to expand again, so a substantial percentage of Woodford Reserve is and will remain whiskey made there. The amounts are my estimates, which they probably would decline to confirm, and anyone can judge that how they will, but it's not a token amount.

If the goal was to make Old Forester, then why did they choose to use pot stills? I still say tourist attraction, coupled with an excuse to start a more expensive brand.

[SmoothAmbler]

Thought I'd chime in.

We are not attempting to make a product that mimics Old Scout's flavor profile. I always thought that was a foolish plan, which was confirmed once Larry Ebersold told me of the struggles (nearly impossible) Seagrams had when attempting to move some production from IN to Canada. I think there are just too many variables in taking on that challenge. It's also one of the many things that initially interested us in Old Scout....that it was so different from what we make.

As many here know, we've been producing our own whiskey since nearly the beginning. Some of that was in small barrels, but the overwhelming majority has been in standard, 53 gallon, barrels. We've burned through nearly all of the small barrel stuff with our Yearling Bourbon. We may have a few small experimental releases (wheat whiskey, bourbon with malted rye instead of rye, etc), but our flagship wheated bourbon won't come out until the fall of 2015, at about 5.5 years in standard barrels.

Initially, our main mash bill was 60% corn, 20% wheat, and 20% malted barley. Fairly early, we've changed the recipe to 73% corn, 15% wheat, and 15% malted barley. As you might guess....and we hoped...we are making better whiskey today than we did 4 years ago when we started. That's from a combination of experience and from feedback from experiences professionals in the industry, including Larry Ebersold. Once we release our product in 2015, we will only have about 24 barrels of whiskey for the year. In 2016, that gets to be about 100 barrels and in 2017 we have about 300 barrels. Then it gets to be about 400 barrels.

Our house whiskey has always been a pricy bottle of whiskey, compared to the big boys, at $24 for a 375ml. We expect that pricing to stay consistent shooting for a $48 price tag for a 750ml. We won't be selling the product in 375ml bottles once we switch to the flagship product (non-Yearling). It's certainly a top shelf price, but not astronomical like I've seen others attempt. At the end of the day, I know our consumer doesn't care what it costs us to produce it, but it is substantially more than what it costs the big boys. We won't be making a fortune selling it, that's for sure.

In the interim, we are working on a blend of our own house whiskey and Old Scout. We've been toying with the blends for a couple of months. It will be "A Blend of Straight Bourbons" since we are using Straight Bourbon from IN and our own Straight Bourbon from WV. We are excited about the flavor of the spirit, the exercise, and for creating a product with honesty and integrity (and being open about how it all happens). Hopefully, we create a product that is greater than the sum of it's parts.

[jmj_203]

Thanks for chiming in SA. The pricing on the 375s is mostly proper and thats why I'll buy a few to try and go from There. However another company, someone who would try to charge almost 50 dollars for a 375ml bottle of young baby brbon, thats ridiculous that anyonw is going to support helping to build a new company by taking it up the rear financially. I'm sure others disagree but to each his own.

[squire]

We are excited about the flavor of the spirit, the exercise, and for creating a product with honesty and integrity (and being open about how it all happens). Hopefully, we create a product that is greater than the sum of it's parts.

Keep that up and you keep my interest . . . and my trade.

[TunnelTiger]

Man if SA get's any better in the future than it is now I'll have to rent a storage unit.