Why?

[dSculptor]

Why do certain distilleries only make a product strictly for overseas sales? Whom and what does this benefit. I would think somewhere down the line there is some logic to it.

Is this stuff still distilled and bottled here in the U.S.A.? And then shipped abroad? Why?

Why make a certain strain and only sell it to a different country, and at the same time not offering it to your homeland people.(unless it's being made over there) I don’t get it, just like my post on ET, Why they only made Kentucky Straight bourbon and only sold it in Japan. If you’re going thru the trouble of making the stuff to begin with, Why not offer it to both? There must be some other reason/s for this, and thus brings us to this thread.

Ok guys …tell me Why?

[GaryT]

Product differentiation and cannibalization is one answer. For example, if Wild Turkey offered everything that they sell overseas here in the US, they may feel that those product sales would not be pulling market from other distillers, but from other Wild Turkey brands (and those other brands may be higher margin, etc). Plus, sometimes the key to getting that distribution is the fact that it is only offered in select markets. I'm not inside the industry, so I'm sure others on this board will have other insights, and perhaps insider insights. Those are my guesses just from a business management perspective.

[squire]

There must be some other reason/s for this, and thus brings us to this thread.

Ok guys …tell me Why?

The obvious answer, and I'm sure the correct one, is it's more profitable for them to do it that way. BF and the other majors have carefully studied their offshore markets and supply them with what sells. As long as domestic customers will settle for 36 month old whisky that's what we will get.

[Hawg73]

Would some of it be the bottling differences as well? Aren't the European bottle 700ml and the US are 750ml? Or did I just make that up. Maybe they only want to produce one bottling to save costs?

[Paddy]

4R will tell you that their overseas selections are targeted to please the palate of the customer (well, at least thats what they told me).

[Guest]

The obvious answer, and I'm sure the correct one, is it's more profitable for them to do it that way. BF and the other majors have carefully studied their offshore markets and supply them with what sells. As long as domestic customers will settle for 36 month old whisky that's what we will get.

Yep this is sound logic.

I would also add to this the marketing angle. Some releases, and I will use WT12 as an example, pop up from time to time in OS markets, if it was sold domestically in the USA it would probably sell out pretty quickly without making much of an impact brand wise (because everyone already knows WT) and the profit would be minimal.

Whereas when they send it overseas it spreads the WT brand as a premium far and wide and for much more $$$. It becomes a desireable limited release and boosts the image of the brand.

[suntour]

I wanted to post this exact thread but specifically in regard to last year's FR 125th SMB.

Our state got less than a case of it, many people reported it being in allocation much like pappy, etc etc. Next thing you know I see a picture from Facebook where a Canadian friend of mine had come home with a case of it. It was sitting on shelves for a month, and at less than the MSRP from the US. That's baffling.

Perhaps its the crack-dealer logic of "The first one is on me."

[squire]

I think it's just the vagaries of the market.

[dSculptor]

I don’t know, but what I have been reading in some of these posts from our abroad friends, is that selection is limited and scarce to begin with.

What they are essentially doing is intentionally holding back certain strains for each market, obviously it has to amount to more money for them somehow, at least that’s what the bean counters tell them.

Even if that is true.. what’s the big deal if you offer it to the domestic, even if it is only sold in Japan (for instance), how can that effect the market over there? What…because then they are not getting an exclusive product only available to them?:horseshit:

Is coke made differently for another country’s palette?

It's all about control...

IMHO... of course.

[MauiSon]

LOL, that's a good one, Squire. It's just producers trying to satisfy customers (distributors). I sure it's a complicated business.

Edited May 1, 2014 by MauiSon

[garbanzobean]

I don’t know, but what I have been reading in some of these posts from our abroad friends, is that selection is limited and scarce to begin with.

What they are essentially doing is intentionally holding back certain strains for each market, obviously it has to amount to more money for them somehow, at least that’s what the bean counters tell them.

Even if that is true.. what’s the big deal if you offer it to the domestic, even if it is only sold in Japan (for instance), how can that effect the market over there? What…because then they are not getting an exclusive product only available to them?:horseshit:

Is coke made differently for another country’s palette?

It's all about control...

IMHO... of course.

Not to pick nits, but coca cola actually is made differently for different markets. The coca cola/diet coke sold in the U.S. is very different from the versions I've had abroad.

[fishnbowljoe]

Y'all are forgetting one important thing here. History. Things have changed a lot in the bourbon world over the years. FWIW, I've only been a member here since 2008, and I can't even begin to describe all the changes that have taken place in such a relatively short time span.

Many years ago, bourbon sales here in the states became very sluggish, and dropped drastically. Re: The bourbon glut. Not sure of any precise, or exact dates, but I know there's many past posts about the glut here on the site, and most folks pretty much know what I'm talking about. Back then, distilleries were doing what they could to sell their bourbon. One example that comes to mind is decanters. Another thing that happened during the glut was that products were being bottled at ages more than what was "typical" or called for. What had to be labeled as a four year old bourbon for instance, was probably in many cases, much older. For those that have been able to taste any dusties from the glut era, you know what I mean. During that time period, export sales started picking up. So……., if you can't sell your product here, and the overseas market is picking up, what do you do? You go with the market where you can sell your product. Common sense to me. Sell your wares overseas.

Fast forward to more current times. The last few years have seen bourbon become quite popular here in the USA once again, and sales have been booming. No more glut. As you all are now pretty much aware, we're actually facing shortages in a lot of cases. Does this mean you say to hell with it, and abandon the markets that helped you stay afloat during the tough times? No. You try and balance things out the best you can. Maintain the status quo, when and if possible. You do the best you can to keep everybody as happy as can be. Sometimes it sucks for us, and sometimes it sucks for the overseas markets. We have more access to some things here, and the export market has a few things we don't see here. One thing of note to remember, some, if not all of the foreign markets pay dearly for what they do get.

Just my two cents on the subject. I could be wrong in my thinking and opinions, but for FWIW, I really don't think I am. It is what it is. And, after all, it could be worse. I for one am glad it isn't

Cheers and enjoy. Joe

[flahute]

^^^^^This makes a lot of sense.

[Harry in WashDC]

. . . As long as domestic customers will settle for 36 month old whisky that's what we will get.

Settling for 36 months? Lately (just the last year or so) concurrently with the disappearance of domestic age statements, I've seen a lot of the major producers following the lead of the micros by saying, "Age doesn't matter; profile's the thing." My problem with that is: why do they maintain age and age statements overseas but drop them here? To be consistent with their assertions to us, I guess they'll sell their overseas stuff regardless of taste so long as it states an age.

Seriously, this is why I bemoan the loss of BIB even when the bottle qualifies - at least I know I'm getting some minimum level of processing.

[Edit - I have no idear WHY the font size changed; guess I was excited and hit some keys without knowing I did so.]

[Harry in WashDC]

What fishnbowljoe said. Please excuse my rant; I'm an old faht and get carried away sometimes.

[fishnbowljoe]

What fishnbowljoe said. Please excuse my rant; I'm an old faht and get carried away sometimes.

It's all good Harry. No big deal. Most folks tend to get frustrated a little from time to time. It's the nature of the beast. Sometimes it helps to step back just a bit and try and take things in from all perspectives. That being said, where's my Weller?!

Cheers. Joe

[squire]

Harry I understand some markets (particularly Japan) value age and require it on the label.

[Harry in WashDC]

[i just gotta remember to use smileys.] Joe, your Weller is safely in my car trunk.:kiss: It's my backup stash. I'll tell you how it tastes shortly, soon as I find the keys.:horseshit:

Taking a step back -- I suppose the "why" has to do with the acceleration in the brown spirits market. While sitting at some of my favorite bars, sipping on neat OGD or Bulliett, conversations with other bar patrons reveals a remarkable lack of knowledge about what they are drinking. I've had sitters tell me "Pappy" is great, but when I ask them which one (my all-time favorite being LotB; I find the older ones a little too oakey), they can't tell me. That doesn't mean they are lyinvgabout how good "it" is - it just means they aren't focused.

I'm torn over trying to educate them, which means they might start buying my favorites in competition with me (SOMEbody cleared out my VOB 6yrBIB source several months ago-a whole shelf gone in two days), or means that I don't share 40 years of drinking experience (not in my nature to sit quietly). With regard to the subject of the thread, I'm guessing that the majors are trying as best as they can to meet the explosion in demand for bourbon overseas (which might be less informed than domestic demand kind of like average US scotch drinkers vs. Scots) while meeting domestic demand which ranges from us SBers to college kids popping flavored malt drinks in a can.

In short, the "why" boils down to: Our job, ultimately, is to SELL, and we have to know our market to survive; if we can deliver a quality product while selling, good. But selling comes first, "good" is a factor in selling.

I could be wrong, now, but I don't think so.

[dSculptor]

Not to pick nits, but coca cola actually is made differently for different markets. The coca cola/diet coke sold in the U.S. is very different from the versions I've had abroad.

Now that's something I did not know...interesting.

Back on subject: I just think it would be nice to be able to have an opportunity to purchase some of the overseas product once in awhile,and vice versa,spread it around.That would be cool if maybe once or twice a year they released overseas versions to both sides of the fence,give 'em a little taste of what the "other side" is tasting. Not that there aren't a lot of choices out there now,but I'm just saying....

Might be a good thread to start up: Which Distilleries out there actually have seperate markets? Maybe we can keep it in here, it does go along with the thread.

JB,WT,how about 4R?

[HighInTheMtns]

I don’t know, but what I have been reading in some of these posts from our abroad friends, is that selection is limited and scarce to begin with.

What they are essentially doing is intentionally holding back certain strains for each market, obviously it has to amount to more money for them somehow, at least that’s what the bean counters tell them.

Even if that is true.. what’s the big deal if you offer it to the domestic, even if it is only sold in Japan (for instance), how can that effect the market over there? What…because then they are not getting an exclusive product only available to them?:horseshit:

Is coke made differently for another country’s palette?

It's all about control...

IMHO... of course.

Edited May 3, 2014 by HighInTheMtns

[bjbronwyn]

All MM in Australia is 80 proof 700ml. Proof is almost always lower here for tax purposes.

Tax is gauged by a combination of proof and volume ( I may be wrong). BT is 80pf, JBW is 74pf. Lower proof means less tax more profit.

[TunnelTiger]

It's ridiculous that they even use distributors. Forty years ago distributors accounted for 80% of my industry's product. Today it's less than 10%.

Increasing warehouse space and selling direct to retailors is much more profitable.

[dSculptor]

It's control of us.... But hey..... I'm just rant'n,sometimes it's just good to break out and rant...I guess that's why they call it rant..

I'm just looking to give you guys something to talk about, One thing I know Is sometimes it's best not to take things so serious.

Obviously there is only one factor and always will be and that my friends is $$$$.I just thought maybe there was something else.(foolish me)

[HighInTheMtns]

It's control of us.... But hey..... I'm just rant'n,sometimes it's just good to break out and rant...I guess that's why they call it rant..

I'm just looking to give you guys something to talk about, One thing I know Is sometimes it's best not to take things so serious.

Obviously there is only one factor and always will be and that my friends is $$$$.I just thought maybe there was something else.(foolish me)

The whiskey companies want to control us. Got it. Thanks bud.