Craft whiskey distillers that never source

[flahute]

I had forgotten about that old post. Thanks for bringing it back up Professor. As you noted, I'm happy to see that their 5 year old product from full size barrels is out regularly and at a decent price (for craft) at $45. They have indeed phased out the micro barrel bourbon but still have the micro barrel rye. The bourbon and rye is pretty good. I think both would benefit from another year or two of age so I'm hoping they get up to the 6-7 year age increment as their standard.

[musekatcher]

1 hour ago, Flyfish said:

I think they are "over priced" of necessity, not as an indicator of objective value--whatever that is. There are huge startup costs associated with distilling that must be made up somehow.

 

Demand is high, lots of new [less informed] customers which favors new entries so I suppose the conditions are right for startups.   Ugh, I watched all this happen with ales over the past 25 years.  I sense hazel cream latte bourbon (gluten free) single barrels in the future....

[DeepCover]

All I care about is what the juice in the bottle tastes like. The clear spirits route is a fairly crowded market, but more power to you if you can make that work while aging your own bourbon distillate.

 

NDP's can get a bad rap at times, but Smooth Ambler chose the right approach, being open about the provenance of their sourced product. They even gave us a taste of their own distillate w/ Yearling and the Contradiction blend while they bide their time with their first true, large-scale bottling of their own final product. Admittedly, I'm not sure if I'd even consider SA "craft" at this point.

 

Going the Garrison Bros. route seems the most challenging, since you're basically forced to use small barrels to accelerate aging and you need to take a young, expensive product to market to generate revenue. Their 2 year bourbon needs another 4 years in the barrel, at least.

 

No matter the route you choose as a new distiller, all I really care about is what the juice tastes like, and I don't mind paying a little extra to support the guys that are doing it well.

[berto]

I want to support the little guys trying to do it on their own and trying to do it the right way.  I really do.  The problem is their current offerings aren't very good.  Those that aren't outright bad are usually overpriced.  I know they need money to fund operations and get to the point where their product is drinkable but $40-$80, often for a 375 bottle, for too young and too hot isn't happening.  I do buy Seven Stills because they're making interesting stuff and they hold a decent number of tastings so I can try before I buy. 

[mosugoji64]

The Seven Stills whiskies are interesting but the ones I've tried are still tainted with the small barrel twang. I'm still pulling for Arizona Distilling here as they're doing some cool things. When we visited them a couple of years ago I told them I thought they were ruining their products in small barrels. They moved to a bigger location earlier this year and we haven't been there yet to see if they're doing anything differently. I'll try to get out there soon and report back.

[smokinjoe]

Most craft distillers have been brought into the business riding the wave of the bourbon boom, which unfortunately, they are looking to capitalize on.  Problem is, every aspect of their process from grain choice, to still type and size, to fermentation control, to barrel selection, to storing conditions, to batch size, runs counter to making a consistent BOURBON.  If any of them, (save just a very few), want to offer a bourbon they should look to only source.  However, I have tasted some incredibly innovative and delicious "other/non bourbon" products from several crafts that deserve a place in the marketplace, and can, have, and will have a place on my bar.

 

The sooner most of these crafts get off their bourbon kick (and rye to a lesser degree) the better off they'll be, IMO.  

Edited December 28, 2016 by smokinjoe
Clarification and gooder ritin'

[Flyfish]

57 minutes ago, smokinjoe said:

Most craft distillers have been brought into the business riding the wave of the bourbon boom, which unfortunately, they are looking to capitalize on.  Problem is, every aspect of their process from grain choice, to still type and size, to fermentation control, to barrel selection, to storing conditions, to batch size, runs counter to making a consistent BOURBON.  If any of them, save just a very few, want to offer a bourbon. They should look to source.  However, I have tasted some incredibly innovative and delicious products from several crafts that deserve a place in the marketplace, and can, have, and will have a place on my bar.

 

The sooner most of these crafts get off their bourbon kick (and rye to a lesser degree) the better off they'll be, IMO.  

There was a new distillery in our area founded by a gentleman who confessed to NOT being a bourbon drinker. In addition to all the other handicaps associated with a startup, he had no idea what his product was supposed to taste like. After reading his confession, I decided not to do the beta tasting for him.

[PaulO]

I think success of craft brewing makes some folks think craft distilling will be just as easy.  Problem is, running a still and putting liquor into barrels is a whole other order of magnitude more complicated.

Another wrong way of thinking - if an operation is small, it must be good.

One more thing - small barrels will quickly age spirits is an urban myth.

I think a craft distiller could make some nice bourbon.  They would have to know what they're doing, and use full size barrels.  

[Richnimrod]

15 hours ago, PaulO said:

I think success of craft brewing makes some folks think craft distilling will be just as easy.  Problem is, running a still and putting liquor into barrels is a whole other order of magnitude more complicated.

Another wrong way of thinking - if an operation is small, it must be good.

One more thing - small barrels will quickly age spirits is an urban myth.

I think a craft distiller could make some nice bourbon.  They would have to know what they're doing, and use full size barrels.  

...And have the capitalization or other income streams to allow them to let it age appropriately before bottling it.

[mbroo5880i]

I only buy craft whiskey if it has been hand-crafted.  None of that whiskey factory made stuff for me. 

[chperry]

I really like many products from Smooth Ambler in WV.  They do source some whiskey but do not try to hide it when they do.  They also make their own, which is good.  Like many distillers they make other products to pay the bills while whiskey ages.  Their gin is very nice and their barrel aged gin is AMAZING in a martini.

[kaiserhog]

On 12/27/2016 at 9:30 AM, lcpfratn said:

Rock Town out of Little Rock, Arkansas has been doing a pretty good job with their bourbon and whiskey. Their pricing is not as crazy as some of the upstarts either. I've bought several bottles thus far...priced in the high $20 to high $30 range. I initially bought them based on Ralfy's review at Ralfy.com. I've only tried the Hickory Smoked Whiskey at this point. It was a bit young, but definitely has an interesting flavor profile. I think Rock Town is one of those craft distillers that is going to do very well over time.

Woody Creek out of Colorado is making some really nice stuff. They haven't released any bourbon yet, but they have a fantastic 100% rye whiskey priced in the $40 range. They also make a 100% potato vodka that is fantastic and some of the best gin that I've ever tasted. I highly recommend Woody Creek's offerings.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Their bourbon is superb.   They do it very well.  They are not overpriced.

[JNeff33]

Traverse City Whiskey will always be in my collection and their distillate is a great price for the pour.

[DeepCover]

@Prof_Stack

@flahute

Do you guys know if Woodinville Bourbon is available outside WA state? I'll be in Nor Cal next month and wouldn't mind bringing a bottle back if it's made it that far out of WA state.

[flahute]

9 minutes ago, DeepCover said:

@Prof_Stack

@flahute

Do you guys know if Woodinville Bourbon is available outside WA state? I'll be in Nor Cal next month and wouldn't mind bringing a bottle back if it's made it that far out of WA state.

Website says they currently are not available out of state. I don't know if that's old info or if it's changed. If anyone in NorCal would have it, it would likely be K&L.

[DeepCover]

10 minutes ago, flahute said:

Website says they currently are not available out of state. I don't know if that's old info or if it's changed. If anyone in NorCal would have it, it would likely be K&L.

Thanks. I'll check it out.

[BES_Hunter]

This is a great thread, and for such a great thread it shall be my first post! 

I work at a distillery in lower Alabama called Big Escambia Spirits (BES). My dad started BES in early 2014 and has created Alabamas first true bourbon. I will write some here but on several other threads as well.

Our Alabama bourbon craft at its core. Local corn, water from the creek and several barrels that have been made from white oaks near us. (but only a few). It is a four grain bourbon that is extremely complex. We have never sourced our spirits. We literally started from clearing brush, laying concrete, building the still, and fermenting and distilling on our own spirits through countless weeks and months of testing and experimenting. 

Our bourbon is special and definitely unique. Hoping to use this forum to get more word out and to be transparent. But there is 1 more distillery that doesnt source!