Makers 46 not a Straight?

[clindt]

I'm not a big fan of regular Makers, but do enjoy Makers 46 occasionally. While pouring a dram this evening, I noticed that the bottle just states that it is Kentucky Bourbon Whiskey. There also is no age statement. Is M46 not a straight? Is it under 2 years old or is it due to it being finished?

[393foureyedfox]

likely due to the finishing process. From what I've gathered, it is basically regularly aged MM thats then given a few months extra aging with the extra wood, so its not 2 years old

[jmj_203]

Definitely not under 2 years old, that deliciousness has more years under its belt. Squire and the bourbon pros can answer why, but it does get "oak staves" into the barrel as a second finishing. Whatever that means its already in new oak. I enjoy makers 46 once a week or so, tastes great neat just pricey when I can enjoy 25 dollar bottles of certain brands, ER 10 at least my current bottle is similar but better in every way for 24.99.

[clindt]

How is it that Angel's Envy, that is finished in port barrels, is labeled as a Straight Bourbon, but M46 that is finished with oak staves is not?

[jonnyd]

Not a "pro" per se, but I do know that they rebarrel MM along with French Oak staves. French Oak has more tannins than American White Oak and that will give the bourbon a different character. The extra time and the influence from the French Oak dries out the profile some so you get a more balanced bourbon. clindt the TTB probably didn't do their job.......again.

[HighInTheMtns]

How is it that Angel's Envy, that is finished in port barrels, is labeled as a Straight Bourbon, but M46 that is finished with oak staves is not?

More specifically, it is labeled as KSBW finished in port wine barrels. Maker's probably didn't want to go with "KSBW finished with French oak staves."

[Josh]

Or they just didn't put straight on there for whatever reason. They're not required to label it a straight.

[squire]

I think it's BeamSpeak for deemphasizing the term 'Straight Bourbon' as being an outdated phrase. Fred Noe has dropped a few comments in interviews and there have been rumblings elsewhere that today's consumers might actually be confused over what 'Straight' means.

Whatever the truth it's a dandy excuse for gradually dropping Straight off the labels, not so quickly soes anyone would notice, 'ya understand.

[393foureyedfox]

honestly, ive got a bottle sitting here next to me for the past three months and didnt notice it until this thread popped up. I enjoy it from time to time, but since I find myself in the much cheaper and easier to enjoy bottle of Larceny, I probably wont replace it when gone.

[clindt]

My wife and I are getting ready to leave for Kentucky to do the Bourbon trail for the first time. I will try and remember to ask someone when we visit the Maker's distillery on Friday.

[HighInTheMtns]

I just want to emphasize my earlier point. Maker's 46 is not Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey. It is KSBW finished with French oak staves. If they wanted to use the word straight, they'd have had to qualify it, like AE does and like HH has done (see: HHSS delays while waiting for approval of a label for KSBW finished in cognac casks.)

Marketing decision? Absolutely, but I don't think there's any larger plan to deemphasize the word straight.

[squire]

According to Fred there is and the decision is consumer driven.

[T Comp]

My wife and I are getting ready to leave for Kentucky to do the Bourbon trail for the first time. I will try and remember to ask someone when we visit the Maker's distillery on Friday.

You would be wasting brain cells to remember and vocal cord vibrations to ask clindt. Beautiful and fun to always visit but above anyone's pay grade and as scripted as can be.

[squire]

Just try not to laugh when they claim to have 'invented' wheat recipe Bourbon.

[shoshani]

Just try not to laugh when they claim to have 'invented' wheat recipe Bourbon.

From a bread recipe. Because baking cornbread with a percentage of wheat flour and malted barley flour and then sticking it in a charred barrel for five years is a great way to tell how a whiskey will taste.

[clindt]

Sounds like I'm in for a treat!

[sku]

I just want to emphasize my earlier point. Maker's 46 is not Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey. It is KSBW finished with French oak staves. If they wanted to use the word straight, they'd have had to qualify it, like AE does and like HH has done (see: HHSS delays while waiting for approval of a label for KSBW finished in cognac casks.)

Marketing decision? Absolutely, but I don't think there's any larger plan to deemphasize the word straight.

The Maker's 46 label reads "Kentucky Bourbon Whisky Barrel Finished With Oak Staves" so they already do use a qualifier. If it's at least two years old, there is no reason they couldn't list it as straight, though as Josh notes above, they don't have to. They didn't use "straight" on Knob Creek Rye either.

[HighInTheMtns]

The Maker's 46 label reads "Kentucky Bourbon Whisky Barrel Finished With Oak Staves" so they already do use a qualifier. If it's at least two years old, there is not reason they couldn't list it as straight, though as noted above, they don't have to. They didn't use "straight" on Knob Creek Rye either.

Strange that it's Beam, who is hanging onto their age statements longer than most.

[tanstaafl2]

I just want to emphasize my earlier point. Maker's 46 is not Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey. It is KSBW finished with French oak staves. If they wanted to use the word straight, they'd have had to qualify it, like AE does and like HH has done (see: HHSS delays while waiting for approval of a label for KSBW finished in cognac casks.)

Marketing decision? Absolutely, but I don't think there's any larger plan to deemphasize the word straight.

According to Fred there is and the decision is consumer driven.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is a plan to deemphasize any word that the bean counters might think would put restrictions on them from putting cheaper stuff in the bottle. But I don't believe it is a consumer driven decision for a moment.

I do believe he might have claimed it was!

[sutton]

This is very interesting. Most consumers probably do not get the subtlety of what "straight" indicates. It means something to us enthusiasts or the smaller percentage of the market that actually care. So while this might allow the "bean counters" and marketing folks more flexibility on what they bottle, think of what the demand will be for those that maintain the term on the label. "Straight" could become a small, more expensive niche market.

[TunnelTiger]

Now that sounds like a sure enough marketing plan!

[cowdery]

It is Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey with ...

Use of the word 'straight' on the label is optional. I asked and they said they omitted it for space, didn't think it was that important, and they're probably right. All of the 'reasons' cited above are speculation and wrong. The fact that it is finished has no effect of their legal ability to use the word 'straight' on the label.

I know quite a bit about American whiskey but find that when I guess I'm frequently wrong, so I try not to guess. That's good advice for all of us.

[clindt]

It is Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey with ...

Use of the word 'straight' on the label is optional. I asked and they said they omitted it for space, didn't think it was that important, and they're probably right. All of the 'reasons' cited above are speculation and wrong. The fact that it is finished has no effect of their legal ability to use the word 'straight' on the label.

I know quite a bit about American whiskey but find that when I guess I'm frequently wrong, so I try not to guess. That's good advice for all of us.

This is what I was told as well. Straight was left off as a marketing decision, because there was not enough space on the label to put it in there. They also said that the TTB does not concider it a Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey and thus the need to use a qualifier.

The tour guide was not even aware that the word 'straight' was not on the bottle and didn't believe me until she looked at a bottle during our tasting. At that point she went and got one of the higher-ups to come down and speak with us personally. I was impressed with the effort taken to answer my question.

[shoshani]

Use of the word 'straight' on the label is optional. I asked and they said they omitted it for space, didn't think it was that important, and they're probably right. All of the 'reasons' cited above are speculation and wrong. The fact that it is finished has no effect of their legal ability to use the word 'straight' on the label.

[cowdery]

(1) is correct in that the only thing that differentiates 'bourbon whiskey' from 'straight bourbon whiskey' is that 2-year anniversary.

(2) Since additives etc. cannot be added to 'bourbon whiskey,' it follows that they can't be added to 'straight bourbon whiskey.'

(3) Something that is 'done' to 'straight bourbon whiskey' doesn't have any effect on the status of the 'straight bourbon whiskey' as 'straight bourbon whiskey.' It simply creates a requirement that the 'something' be disclosed as a modifier to 'straight bourbon whiskey.'

If the base of the product is straight bourbon whiskey, that doesn't change. You can't unring a bell.