Early GTS: where was it distilled and what mashbill?

[luther.r]

A few of us did a GTS tasting yesterday covering just about all the years, and an interesting point was brought up. AA/BT didn't always make two mashbills. According to Chuck C, they started making mash #1 in 1992 when Sazerac bought them; prior to that it was only mash #2 (higher rye/AA).

If that's the case, the early GTS editions would have had to have been either:

a) the high-rye mash #2 from AA

mash #1 distilled elsewhere and brought over to BT with the sale

c) some other mash brought to BT with the sale

Chuck tells me Sazerac was having HH contract distill for them for ER10/101, which brings up the possibility the early GTS could have been distilled at HH.

Can anyone add any knowledge to this mystery?

[fishnbowljoe]

Chuck tells me Sazerac was having HH contract distill for them for ER10/101, which brings up the possibility the early GTS could have been distilled at HH.

[T Comp]

When I "gave up" on GTS, I had one bottle left in the bunker. Not sure what year. Doesn't matter. Using the SB dilution calendar, I cut it to 101 proof and brought it with me to the KBF a couple of years ago. It was labeled as Joe's Mystery Whiskey. I didn't bring any back home with me.

[ChicagoFlyer]

I'm sure the early bottles tasted like shame and deceit. Most likely this bouquet softened as the evening went on.

[luther.r]

I'm sure the early bottles tasted like shame and deceit. Most likely this bouquet softened as the evening went on.

Pretty much everything I eat or drink tastes that way Vince. (starts sobbing uncontrollably)

[WAINWRIGHT]

This is where I wish more members like Barturtle were still active because I would really like to see a concrete or at least an insightful perspective on the question.........inquiring minds want to know.

[cowdery]

This might shed some light on things. It's from Mark Brown, in 2003, after I ask about the origin of the whiskey they were using then (in 2003) for Charter 12 and for the Antique Collection. The last line is especially interesting. His answer:

"When we acquired Weller and Charter, we purchased enough stock to cover our selling needs until our own distillations come of age. So, the Charter whiskey being used all came from the Bernheim inventory. However, there is an interesting twist to the story ... We actually distilled some Weller and Charter for UD in the late 80's / early 90's and have been aging them at the Trace since then. In the case of Charter 12, it is actually the whiskey we distilled and aged. In addition,

given that Schenley owned both BTD and Bernheim at the same time, there was / is a lot shared knowledge and expertise between the two distilleries, hence our ability to distill Charter competently. In the case of Weller, we had quite a bit of practice when distilling for UD. As an aside, we are also big believers in consistency and have actually invested about $1.0 million in equipment to ensure that the Charter and Weller we are making and selling remain true to the original taste profiles."

"The mystery on the Antique collection is also easily solved. Weller 19 was part of the stock of old Stitzel-Weller inventory that came along with the Weller purchase. Sazerac Rye 18 was part of a batch of straight rye whiskey we made under the Cream of Kentucky DSP in 1981, etc., that had become completely lost in our inventory. We only found it after a complete review and inspection of our barrel inventory. Turned out to be quite a find!! Yum!

Eagle Rare 17 was part of our existing 'rye mash bourbon #2' inventory. The Stagg is from our 'rye mash bourbon #1' inventory."

I've read this many times before and it never dawned on me. At least back then, ER17 was from Age whiskey, not BT whiskey, which is what regular ER is. ER17 was, in effect, 17-year-old Blanton's! That doesn't mean that's what it is now, but that's what it was then.

Edited May 23, 2014 by cowdery

[HighInTheMtns]

Which mash was used for Eagle Rare 101?

[luther.r]

Presumably ER101 was mash #1. Although with it being distilled first at Seagrams (4R), then possibly at HH, and maybe under contract, that adds more questions.

Thanks for the extra info Chuck.

Edited May 23, 2014 by luther.r

[WAINWRIGHT]

Great thanks as always Chuck for the in depth follow up.

[mbroo5880i]

I have the whiskey geek syndrome. While I was cutting grass this evening, I was thinking I wish I knew what Elmer T. Lee knew about the mashbills and what was used for what. I was also thinking that it would be interesting to ask him when he first realized that he preferred to drink his bourbon with Sprite. It beats my usual mowing contemplations such as historical sports figures, work or the stock market.

[squire]

Yes, Bourbon makes the mundane relaxing.

[mbroo5880i]

Yep, as I thought about Mr. Lee, I decided tonight would be a BT night, even before reading Jim's thread.

[BFerguson]

I'm glad we have folks like Chuck to enlightened us who would never have the ability to have such conversations.

What a great bit of history

B

[sbsbsb]

Resurrecting this thread and I'm hoping Chuck can chime in. According to the PDFs on Buffalo Trace's website, it would appear that the 2003 2004 and 2005 Stagg was distilled in 1988. If that's the case, then wouldn't those have to be Age distillate? Despite what Chuck quotes Marc as saying above,  the mashbill #1 did not exist in 1988, correct?

 

I'm assuming all the Eagle Rare 17 that was distilled in 1988,  up to and including the 2006 bottling, would also be Age distillate, correct?

[garbanzobean]

For some reason I really enjoy the minutiae of learning about bottling history and how the bourbon brand shuffle affected it.  My only bottle of ER17 is a 2014, which was 19 at the time of bottling, and from a Spring 1993 distillation run.  I assume it would have been mashbill number 1 at that point, and that it was either bottled two years prior, or was tanked two years prior.  2015 ER17 is from a Spring 1998 distillation run and is back down to 17 years of age, according to the fact sheet.  BT must be glad to have finally made it over most of their aged stock for special editions speed bumps.

 

Edit:  apologies for the thread meander.

Edited June 21, 2016 by garbanzobean

[jsrudd]

7 hours ago, sbsbsb said:

Resurrecting this thread and I'm hoping Chuck can chime in. According to the PDFs on Buffalo Trace's website, it would appear that the 2003 2004 and 2005 Stagg was distilled in 1988. If that's the case, then wouldn't those have to be Age distillate? Despite what Chuck quotes Marc as saying above,  the mashbill #1 did not exist in 1988, correct?

There has always been a lot of speculation that BT#1 is just the Charter mash bill. If you look at Mark's quote, he says that they distilled Charter in the late 80s and early 90s. This would fit with the 1988 distillation date for GTS.  

[amg]

I wonder what mash bill the old DSP-KY-113 Dant is.