An Open Letter to Sazerac

[squire]

The original version of Eagle Rare 101 was batched and it was good stuff. Perhaps a return to the brands roots would be the best move.

[mbroo5880i]

There you go! ER 10/101 small batch! I am ok with the SB designation going away as long as the age and profile stay the same. A bump "back" up in proof would be a nice trade off for no longer being SB. I just don't want to see it go NAS. That would mean no SB, NAS and lower proof. They would need to call it "Eagle Not So Rare."

[squire]

Eaglet . . . . . . . . . . . .

[compliance]

Let's return the proof while we're at it

Edit- beaten to the punch!

[Brisko]

Well, Mark Brown, and by extension, Sazerac, seem committed to making good whiskey. I Think the fake age statements are BS and his answer more or less confirms it. On the other side, ER is all over the map. If batching it improves it, I'm all for it.

[TheNovaMan]

I'd like to say that I was once in group number three: I drank Ten High, mostly with lemon-lime soda, for years. Then one day it didn't taste right. After a while, I figured out it was no longer 100% straight bourbon anymore, and they had minutely changed the label. It may be a surprise to Sazerac management that I did NOT think "well, thank goodness they barely changed the label!" In fact, my thoughts were quite the opposite: "they ruined MY whiskey and intentionally fooled me into thinking I was still buying the same stuff! [insert obscenities here]"

Now I drink Heaven Hill products.

[squire]

Well stated Pete. Brand loyalty is hard to build and easy to lose.

[Guy Debord]

Just think, if the CEO of such a big company reaches out to address one person's concerns,what would happen if a whole bunch of people flooded him with the same concerns?

Slightly off topic, but what if people everywhere were a bit more informed about a variety of issues and demanded answers. Politics, wages, etc. come to mind. I'm glad something cool happened in the bourbon world, but I wish things like this were more prevalent in our bigger world.

[sutton]

There was an interesting, related perspective on this a few days ago by Dave Driscoll on the K&L Spirits blog. The third category of bourbon buyers that Mark Brown spoke of is likely accurate. While that doesn't excuse intentionally deceptive labeling, I wonder how many would really care even if it were pointed out to them.

For that reason though, I think distillers should trust that these same customers don't need a deceptive label to continue purchasing. And as was stated up thread, they risk losing a portion of those customers as they become more knowledgeable over time.

No one likes to be manipulated. That probably describes most of us (certainly me) as we've become more aware of labeling requirements. - I've become a better consumer because of what I've learned here, and for that I'm appreciative.

[squire]

The more we know the less they can pull over on us.

[The Black Tot]

I also like that he took the time.

The explanation of having three main types of bourbon buyers was cool, and reveals a lot about their decision making process, which we all can appreciate.

However, since he knows that we at the bourbon geek end are still out there, why not do some more special editions for us?

If Old Charter 8yr goes to 8, then why not add a special release of OC 10 year age stated and meticulously labeled small batch, for us type ones?

His argument seems to be that the familiarity cravers want slow or no change, so this being the case, the geeks could go for the OC 10yr release that the type threes find suspicious because it's unfamiliar.

If there are three types of Old Charter buyers (and Eagle Rare buyers), then why not just release some special editions to keep all parties happy? It's not like some different stickers would cost so much, and they'd easily be covered by a few dollar mark up for the specials.

I mean, they even used to do it. I just bought an Old Charter 12yr last month. And it's delicious.

The trouble is, not only are the age statements being dropped, but it seems the special release extra-aged limited editions, which should be for the type ones he recognizes are also on their radar, are getting DROPPED.

What I'm reading is that he recognizes that there are three types of bourbon buyers, but a lot of the old favorites seem to be going the last type's way almost exclusively.

The existence of the three categories should be EXPANDING offerings, not contracting them.

tbt

[HighInTheMtns]

I gotta say that it's pretty unreasonable to imply that BT should release more special editions... No one does more of that than them.

[The Black Tot]

I gotta say that it's pretty unreasonable to imply that BT should release more special editions... No one does more of that than them.

It is a proposed solution that addresses the three categories of bourbon buyers as presented by their own CEO. I also called out that options for some of these brands are contracting, not expanding.

If nobody does it more than them, they should be pretty good at it - it shouldn't be something they don't know how to do well.

I'm not seeing a lot of other proposed solutions, and I don't think that's unreasonable at all. I've already said I'll chuck a few extra dollars in for the added trouble that goes into a product that offers the age statements and provenance accuracy that we're looking for.

I like your earlier point about the changing weather, and I do think they're dealing with a shift in flavor profiles, at loggerheads with the prejudice of "more is more" when it comes to age.

tbt

[HighInTheMtns]

It is a proposed solution that addresses the three categories of bourbon buyers as presented by their own CEO. I also called out that options for some of these brands are contracting, not expanding.

If nobody does it more than them, they should be pretty good at it - it shouldn't be something they don't know how to do well.

I'm not seeing a lot of other proposed solutions, and I don't think that's unreasonable at all. I've already said I'll chuck a few extra dollars in for the added trouble that goes into a product that offers the age statements and provenance accuracy that we're looking for.

I like your earlier point about the changing weather, and I do think they're dealing with a shift in flavor profiles, at loggerheads with the prejudice of "more is more" when it comes to age.

tbt

I guess my point of view is somewhat more cynical. It's nice that they're keeping Charter (for example) around for its legacy drinkers, but I don't give a crap about that brand. Between BTAC, Van Winkle, CEHT, and presumably the new 1792 stuff, Sazerac has its hands full.

Besides that, Charter is just a brand these days, distinguished only by barrel selection from all the other mash #1 brands. We have tons of options that are essentially the equivalent of Charter. Mark didn't say this so explicitly, but I'll go ahead and say it: if Old Charter were discontinued entirely, tomorrow, no one here would have to change their drinking habits much, but the OC legacy drinker might end up switching to another distillery's grade whiskey.

For the record, if a premium Charter were ever released, I would be first in line to bitch and moan that I want a premium mash #2 release instead

[PaulO]

Wow, What a thread Jim. When I started to get interested in bourbon back in the '90s, I thought BT was pretty special. The reason was, I was living in MI. The only way I got any BT products was to stock up while visiting family in IN. I regarded those paper label 7 year old Weller Antiques the same way some value your most esteemed bottles. I discovered that I liked ETL, and Sazerac Rye too. The funny thing, the flagship brand Buffalo Trace, never impressed me much. Eagle Rare as well, I don't really care for. To me Buffalo Trace and Eagle Rare are just maybe average on a good day. It turns out, I'm probably not much of a fan of the BT mashbill #1. Nowadays the BT products I like just aren't to be found. :searching:

[bourboNcigars]

I'm glad I'm not alone paul, I never saw anything special or what the big deal was in eagle rare or buffalo trace bourbon to me both right just below avg,

[ethangsmith]

I'm glad to see a logical response to our questions. While I may not agree with some of them, I understand why they are doing what they are doing. There was certainly some strategic planning on their end to make all these changes work. My only concern is that the dropping of some ages, or single barrel labels could open the door to someday cheapening the product. I guess we all just have to have faith that Sazerac is in fact a company of integrity and will continue to provide their consumers with the best product they can.

Now, once the liquor store opens, it's off to buy another bottle of 1792!

[MauiSon]

All I would ask is that they keep some older and better barrels around for a healthy private selection program - that is enough to satisfy the geekdom, IMO.

[cowdery]

I like the way Mark Brown deals with things. He doesn't dissemble. He gives you a straight answer even when he knows you might not like it. And if he doesn't want to answer something -- usually involving something he considers proprietary -- he doesn't hem and haw, he just says, "I'm not going to answer that." Maybe he can get so much done because he doesn't waste time, his or others.

[HighInTheMtns]

I like the way Mark Brown deals with things. He doesn't dissemble. He gives you a straight answer even when he knows you might not like it. And if he doesn't want to answer something -- usually involving something he considers proprietary -- he doesn't hem and haw, he just says, "I'm not going to answer that." Maybe he can get so much done because he doesn't waste time, his or others.

This is pretty much what I got from talking to him, including the not answering part, which happened when I asked about something he considered proprietary. Really great guy to talk to IMO.

[Dolph Lundgren]

I figured I'd get a response. I didn't figure it would be from Mark directly, and I definitely didn't figure he'd take so much time out of his day for it.

This reminds me of the random consumer complaint emails Steve Jobs would respond to. Totally random. Seems like Mark was a little more courteous than Steve.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/19/steve-jobs-emails-photos_n_539517.html

[p_elliott]

I would like make the comment that Sazerac I.E. BT has been very good to us at SB.com. They have accommodated us very well.

[MauiSon]

I'd sure like to get a sample of dem dere accommodations.

[P&MLiquorsEric]

Based on my store, there has been no slowdown in sales since VOB age statements were removed.

Not surprising. Not sure if it's proof that the average consumer doesn't care or that they haven't noticed.

[T Comp]

Based on my store, there has been no slowdown in sales since VOB age statements were removed.

Not surprising. Not sure if it's proof that the average consumer doesn't care or that they haven't noticed.

And let's remember in spite of our annoyance or outrage...Jack Daniels sales went up substantially after Brown Forman completed the to 80 proof reduction in 2004. They made no announcement and certainly social media/internet was less but 10,000 online signatures from Modern Drunkard made no difference. Of course if those 10,000 pleas came from the Wall Street Journal website it might have been a different outcome ala Makers but other than VW these Saz brands don't have that same cachet either.

http://adage.com/article/news/weaker-jack-daniel-s-spirits-strongman/103213/