Bourbon Seminar in Ann Arbor, MI

[Tony]

Gotta go with Josh here. I was really looking forward to meeting Mike and the seminar. I really enjoyed his book and that was the main draw for me. I have spent much more for much less.

Best regards, Tony

[Richnimrod]

Perhaps a more detailed description, along with the lunch option, and maybe a couple of top-shelf pours would've put it over the top. For me it might've.

[nd2005]

Perhaps a more detailed description, along with the lunch option, and maybe a couple of top-shelf pours would've put it over the top. For me it might've.

Yup, same here. I'm just hesitant to put out that much money.

[cowdery]

I've been trying to do events like this too, with only limited success, so I appreciate hearing what people want and are willing to spend for it.

One problem is that people like Mike Veach and myself have to compete against brand ambassadors who are paid by the producer they work for, which also gives the whiskey to the bar for free. Whatever you pay is therefore pure profit for the bar. With an independent tasting, the presenter and the bar have to get paid from the ticket sales. While I think people recognize the value of an independent presenter versus an advertising spokesperson, it's hard to get the money right.

Ultimately, the answer might be bigger venues than what most bars can provide. The 20-25 people you can fit into most bars for this sort of thing just isn't enough to spread the cost around without charging more than most people are willing to pay. Problem there is that bigger venues (e.g., hotels, banquet halls) aren't necessarily places that are trying to build a reputation as whiskey-centric, which is part of what the bars get out of it.

Ironically, it's also something that hasn't gone down well at most whiskey events, which one would think would be the natural place for it. Since all of those events depend so heavily on producer involvement, they just lean on the producers for such things, bias be damned. Even the publications such as Whisky Advocate and WHISKY, which have plenty of independent voices in their pages, have almost none at the events (WhiskyFest, Whiskey Live) they sponsor. The independent festivals are no better and for the same reasons.

The tours I've been trying to do in Kentucky are running into the same kinds of problems. Hence things like the books and newsletter seem to be the only ways I can share my knowledge and in so doing make a reasonable income.

I don't blame the producers and the institutions they control, such as the KDA and KBF, for not encouraging independent voices. That's something the community needs to support to counterbalance the advertising from producers, and they do to some extent (my books sell well) but we haven't found the right formula for some of these other things yet.

[DBM]

I am disappointed with the people who say "needs better/more top shelf pours". That's really not the point of an educational event. Most of the people on this forum own many thousands of dollars in bourbon/whisky, yet apparently can't fork out a buck twenty five to better understand and appreciate that investment.

I will donate a bottle of "top shelf" bourbon and pay the admission if Mike comes out to my neck of the woods. It's just money.

[Richnimrod]

I am disappointed with the people who say "needs better/more top shelf pours". That's really not the point of an educational event. Most of the people on this forum own many thousands of dollars in bourbon/whisky, yet apparently can't fork out a buck twenty five to better understand and appreciate that investment.

I will donate a bottle of "top shelf" bourbon and pay the admission if Mike comes out to my neck of the woods. It's just money.

[nd2005]

I am disappointed with the people who say "needs better/more top shelf pours". That's really not the point of an educational event. Most of the people on this forum own many thousands of dollars in bourbon/whisky, yet apparently can't fork out a buck twenty five to better understand and appreciate that investment.

I will donate a bottle of "top shelf" bourbon and pay the admission if Mike comes out to my neck of the woods. It's just money.

Edited July 14, 2014 by nd2005

[smokinjoe]

OK, DBM may have been a little heavy handed in his post, but I think his point was that the value of the event was in the program and information to be provided by Mr. Veach, and not on the food and drink list. It does seem that most of the regrets focused on the latter.

[nd2005]

OK, DBM may have been a little heavy handed in his post, but I think his point was that the value of the event was in the program and information to be provided by Mr. Veach, and not on the food and drink list. It does seem that most of the regrets focused on the latter.

I understand this perspective. I'm simply saying in my mind for that price, I expect value to come from both the education quality of the event and the quality of the offerings that go with it. If it were less money, I would have almost certainly attended. If the offerings were better, I would have strongly considered going at that price.

And unfortunately it seems like most of the Ann Arbor market agreed with me, as the event was cancelled due to lack of interest. So for a restaurant that is struggling in an attempt to distinguish itself as the premier cocktail/whiskey bar in town, they need to reconsider their offerings to get more butts in the seats.

[DBM]

Yes, I could've been more PC in my comment, but that was kind of the point... I respect that people are in different financial categories, but it's a bit oxymoronic that this forum exists primarily of folks who are seeking out, purchasing and consuming the most expensive products on the market (not exclusively, but inclusive of their bourbon purchasing habits), yet balk at an all-day educational event, hosted by a respected American whiskey historian, to "geek out" and gain more appreciation for their whiskey hobby/obsession/stress reliever. The price point of the bourbon is mostly irrelevant to achieving that goal.

$125 might be considered "expensive" to some and "pocket change" to others - my comment is that I believe $125 is not overpriced. Is there any competition for this type of event to compare cost vs value?

[TunnelTiger]

What y'all needed was some bikinis

[nd2005]

$125 might be considered "expensive" to some and "pocket change" to others - my comment is that I believe $125 is not overpriced. Is there any competition for this type of event to compare cost vs value?

You believe it's not overpriced; I believe it is. That's fine. No one is forcing me to sign up so ultimately it is no skin off of my back.

I just think it is fair to consider the whole value of the event (education, food, and liquor) when deciding whether to attend.

[DBM]

You believe it's not overpriced; I believe it is. That's fine. No one is forcing me to sign up so ultimately it is no skin off of my back.

I just think it is fair to consider the whole value of the event (education, food, and liquor) when deciding whether to attend.

Fair point, though neither of us will know for sure without attending.

[Richnimrod]

What y'all needed was some bikinis

If I'd known I could wear my bikini, I may have decide to come at that price.

Most of you folks have yet to view the ultimate 'chubby old fart in a 'kini'. You are missing out.

[OscarV]

Start pitching your pocket change in the ole fruit jar cuz it's been rescheduled for November.

6 hours of info-tainment for a hundy and a quarter is a steal.

[cowdery]

This might be a good place to mention that we are going to give the Chuck Cowdery tour one more try. The new dates are October 15, 16, 17. That was just finalized today. More info to come.

P.S., it's more than $125.

[Tony]

Start pitching your pocket change in the ole fruit jar cuz it's been rescheduled for November.

6 hours of info-tainment for a hundy and a quarter is a steal.

Good Day Oscar-

Can you share more information? I did not see it listed on Filson site and was thinking about going to Chicago instead.

Their site is here for others- http://filsonhistorical.org/education/the-filson-bourbon-academy/

Best regards, Tony

[GaryT]

I appreciate Chuck's explanation behind the cost structure and the business model, very helpful. I've attended several tastings around Atlanta that were hosted by the distillery, and typically you're in the $30-40 range (if dinner is included, $70ish). Those prices are outstanding values typically to try some decent whiskey, ranging from the daily pours to the top shelf. But the whiskey is "free" to the hosting establishment, and the talking points are all one-sided. Nothing wrong with that as long as you know what you're getting into; I tend to learn something from those by asking the right questions (or frankly, having friends who ask the right questions I wouldn't think to even ask!), but I think unfortunately most consumers don't differentiate between these different event types when looking at how to spend their time/money.

I hope the reschedule gets more traction. And the bikini suggestion . . . not a bad idea

[Richnimrod]

And the bikini suggestion . . . not a bad idea

WOW! ...From my own son, I expected a bit more discerning comment...

I mean you have actually seen me in my bikini; and I remember how little you liked it when I interrupted your Saturday night date with that blonde to show it off. Just sayin'.....

[OscarV]

Can you share more information?

That's all Mike told me, just rescheduled for November 15.

Maybe call Ravens Club.

[Tony]

That's all Mike told me, just rescheduled for November 15.

Maybe call Ravens Club.

Thanks Oscar, that was the most important part the date. I will pencil it in and wait until there is a more official announcement.

Best regards, Tony

[Josh]

I will try to make it this time. Also gonna try and make the Chuck tour this time.

[bourbonv]

Sorry I have not been checking this earlier. It has been a busy time for me the last few weeks. Oscar is correct - I have talked with Jeff at the Raven's Club and we have rescheduled the event for November 15. They feel it will be better attended in the fall and Michigan is having an off week so there is no game to compete with that day. I hope to see some of you up there. I understand that some of you don't like the price, but that is the price that the Filson needs to get to have me make a trip to Ann Arbor. The money does go to support the Filson and its mission to collect, preserve and tell the stories of Kentucky, the Ohio River valley and the Upper South. We are a non-profit and money made from these events does a lot to support that mission. Thank you for those that will come and do so. Your support will help preserve Bourbon History in the centuries to come.

Mike Veach

[Richnimrod]

November 15th???

Did anyone take note that this is the Opening Day of Michigan's Rifle Deer Season?

I suspect that many folls will be "up North" doing their traditional/family thing on that date.

[Vosgar]

Since I've been to one of Mike's seminars, I thought I'd throw in my two cents.

If you're looking for a high end whiskey tasting this isn't for you but you'd be missing out on an enjoyable and educational day. The whiskey choices Mike used did a great job of getting his points across on a variety of topics such as high rye vs low rye, rye vs wheat, the effects of different types of glassware, how various foods change what flavors you pickup in a bourbon, etc. Sure, they were everyday kind of bourbon's, but they're still good and did a fine job of getting his message through to the group.

Mike's knowledge on the history of bourbon is well known and it was fun to listen to as he shared some of that with us. I'm not usually a history buff kind of guy, but he held my interest the entire day. No matter how much you know about bourbon, I'm sure you'll learn and experience plenty of new things.

I'd recommend going if you have the time and money to do so.