Top Shelf Whiskey Allocated via Lottery System

[IowaJeff]

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/entertainment/dining/2014/05/17/whiskey-boom-distillers-scrambling/9207977/

Wade through the usual craft distiller BS, the token reference to $6,000 bottles of PVW, and you get to the important point - Iowa is allocating 'top-shelf' whiskey to liquor stores based on a lottery system. I understand individual stores adopting this model, but I think it is BS at the state level. It hurts the very small handful of liquor stores that actually stock a good selection of whiskey. In the past, they used to get those bottles, as I think they should. They step out and offer more than just Jim Beam and Johnnie Walker and should be rewarded. Why should the sketchy tobacco and spirits shop across the street with no selection get the 'connoisseur' bottles when they don't cater to that crowd? They're just going to triple the price that the real liquor store would put on it. Spreading the wealth to stores that have done nothing to earn it.

Do other states do this?

[callmeox]

Moved from Industry News to General forum to allow discussion (Industry news does not permit member replies).

[squire]

Why should the sketchy tobacco and spirits shop across the street with no selection get the 'connoisseur' bottles when they don't cater to that crowd? They're just going to triple the price that the real liquor store would put on it.

Triple their campaign contributions as well.

[KyleCBreese]

I totally agree with you. It's unfortunate that the stores that try to stock the widest selection of whiskey aren't getting the first shot at the top-shelf products.

Similarly, the local store I frequent and spend the most money at has a lottery system for PVW and BTAC. It is a complete luck of the draw. Unfortunately, people will bring friends and children who have no interest in the whiskey, so that they can get more entries into the lottery (when their friends win, they just hand them the bottle).

I wish people who are loyal to a store and have a serious interest as to what is in the bottle, would be rewarded. The best lottery system I have heard of, was that every 3 bottles of bourbon you bought throughout the year would get you an entry. This would certainly award people who are loyal to a store and to bourbon.

[IowaJeff]

I totally agree with you. It's unfortunate that the stores that try to stock the widest selection of whiskey aren't getting the first shot at the top-shelf products.

Similarly, the local store I frequent and spend the most money at has a lottery system for PVW and BTAC. It is a complete luck of the draw. Unfortunately, people will bring friends and children who have no interest in the whiskey, so that they can get more entries into the lottery (when their friends win, they just hand them the bottle).

I wish people who are loyal to a store and have a serious interest as to what is in the bottle, would be rewarded. The best lottery system I have heard of, was that every 3 bottles of bourbon you bought throughout the year would get you an entry. This would certainly award people who are loyal to a store and to bourbon.

[petrel800]

That is unfortunate and I agree with your assessment that the stores that do the most to keep their shelves full of bourbon all year long should garner the lions share of the top end special releases. That being said, it could make for some fun finds next spring especially if the bottles wind up in some weird stores.

As for stores having lotteries, I'm not a fan, obviously I love the stores that still have the balls to put it out on the shelf, but that's just not all to common anymore. That being said, if they're not going to put it on the shelf, I prefer the store management hold it aside and offer it to the folks they have a relationship with.

[EagleRiver]

That is unfortunate and I agree with your assessment that the stores that do the most to keep their shelves full of bourbon all year long should garner the lions share of the top end special releases. That being said, it could make for some fun finds next spring especially if the bottles wind up in some weird stores.

As for stores having lotteries, I'm not a fan, obviously I love the stores that still have the balls to put it out on the shelf, but that's just not all to common anymore. That being said, if they're not going to put it on the shelf, I prefer the store management hold it aside and offer it to the folks they have a relationship with.

What kind of balls does it take to just sell something to whoever has the money? I don't get that comment at all, that's the easy way out, no extra work or thought put into it. As a store owner I pretty much hand select where all my rare allocation items go, maybe its not the best or most fair way, but why let some guy from out of town that hasn't spent a dime in my store ever come up and buy me out of limited release items because he is following the delivery truck around, and tell my good customers who are in the store week after week that they are out of luck. Seems kind stupid. I never price gouge the Limited release items and the amounts I get are so few that its not at all a money making venture, so I figure I'm going to do my best to make sure people who are supporting me year round get my support back. It seems like the smartest way to me. Also I personally love bourbon, yet rarely do I keep any of these bottles for myself until I have at least tried to take care of my best regulars. Last year I reached out and sold some of my small Pappy Allocation to a couple people from out of town, but not real far away, who had been begging me for months. I haven't seen either of the back to my store since. I'm sure they will be calling this fall and begging for more, and guess what I won't have any for them.

[HighInTheMtns]

What kind of balls does it take to just sell something to whoever has the money? I don't get that comment at all, that's the easy way out, no extra work or thought put into it. As a store owner I pretty much hand select where all my rare allocation items go, maybe its not the best or most fair way, but why let some guy from out of town that hasn't spent a dime in my store ever come up and buy me out of limited release items because he is following the delivery truck around, and tell my good customers who are in the store week after week that they are out of luck. Seems kind stupid. I never price gouge the Limited release items and the amounts I get are so few that its not at all a money making venture, so I figure I'm going to do my best to make sure people who are supporting me year round get my support back. It seems like the smartest way to me. Also I personally love bourbon, yet rarely do I keep any of these bottles for myself until I have at least tried to take care of my best regulars. Last year I reached out and sold some of my small Pappy Allocation to a couple people from out of town, but not real far away, who had been begging me for months. I haven't seen either of the back to my store since. I'm sure they will be calling this fall and begging for more, and guess what I won't have any for them.

It's a no win situation for people in your position.

Put it on the shelf, you can tell everyone who asks that is what you are going to do, but it sells out in a day and you end up with angry customers.

Save it for your best customers, and people who think they should be in that category but aren't will be angry.

Hold a lottery, and you'll have a circus on your hands. Pappy and BTAC are just a disaster right now.

(in your case... Sell them all to WAINWRIGHT. Best advice I can give you.)

[TunnelTiger]

My dealers don't put them on the shelves. They have them behind the counter and offer them to their best customers even if they don't come in every week

[EagleRiver]

It's a no win situation for people in your position.

Put it on the shelf, you can tell everyone who asks that is what you are going to do, but it sells out in a day and you end up with angry customers.

Save it for your best customers, and people who think they should be in that category but aren't will be angry.

Hold a lottery, and you'll have a circus on your hands. Pappy and BTAC are just a disaster right now.

(in your case... Sell them all to WAINWRIGHT. Best advice I can give you.)

Its definitely a no win, I just feel like the lottery and shelf option to often rewards the wrong people and also ends up in the hands of people just trying to turn it over and make a quick buck. At least bourbon isn't as bad as beer is, yet.

[petrel800]

What kind of balls does it take to just sell something to whoever has the money? I don't get that comment at all, that's the easy way out, no extra work or thought put into it. As a store owner I pretty much hand select where all my rare allocation items go, maybe its not the best or most fair way, but why let some guy from out of town that hasn't spent a dime in my store ever come up and buy me out of limited release items because he is following the delivery truck around, and tell my good customers who are in the store week after week that they are out of luck. Seems kind stupid. I never price gouge the Limited release items and the amounts I get are so few that its not at all a money making venture, so I figure I'm going to do my best to make sure people who are supporting me year round get my support back. It seems like the smartest way to me. Also I personally love bourbon, yet rarely do I keep any of these bottles for myself until I have at least tried to take care of my best regulars. Last year I reached out and sold some of my small Pappy Allocation to a couple people from out of town, but not real far away, who had been begging me for months. I haven't seen either of the back to my store since. I'm sure they will be calling this fall and begging for more, and guess what I won't have any for them.

Hey mate, just my opinion, its your stuff, make a decision and do what you want with it. In my opinion it is pretty ballsy to put the stuff on the shelf with whatever you deem the price and terms should be and sell it that way. If you want to limit it to one bottle per person, or whatever, hey it's your stuff until I buy it. Sure customers are going to be ticked if you get cleared out, but I always get a big smile when I run into one of these bottles in the wild. Thrill of the catch. I know of a couple of stores here locally that still put some of the BTAC on the shelf and I frequent them because of it. I got no problem with a store rewarding the man who put the work in to know when something was coming out.

If you want to hold it back for your best customers, well, obviously as stated, I'm fine with that as well, but from the end of your post, it sounds like that didn't work out well for you either in a couple of cases.

Lotteries in my opinion are what take the least amount of thought and/or balls. It gives the owner an out to say everyone got a "fair" chance to get a bottle and causes the owner no grief what so ever. In my opinion, "fair" is in the fall, it has rides and funnel cakes, good times. Where as on the shelf or best customers is likely to piss folks off if they didn't pay attention to find the bottles they desired or that they're not that good of a customer.

At the end of the day, you'll never hear a pip out of me claiming price gouging saying that a store is "taking advantage" of anyone. I'll be happy to walk out of your store empty handed if I don't like your terms, I might even laugh in your face, but at the end of the day, it's all supply and demand. Like I said, it's your stuff, do what you want with it.

[squire]

why let some guy from out of town that hasn't spent a dime in my store ever come up and buy me out of limited release items because he is following the delivery truck around . . . . I figure I'm going to do my best to make sure people who are supporting me year round get my support back.

This approach is what produces loyalty in customers.

[upStomp]

The store I've been shopping the most has a loyalty-based lottery system that may work pretty well. You get a punch card. For every bottle of whiskey you buy, you get at least one punch (based on value, >$25 = 2 punches, etc.). After the card is filled (16 punches), you trade it in for a "Hold Card". You fill in the form on the back of the card listing your name, contact info, and the bottle you want. You can put as many Hold Cards down on the bottle of interest as you want. Each expression is usually 1-per-customer. Any cards that aren't drawn go back to their owners.

No, it's not perfect. Corporate buyers obviously have a leg up. Also the fact that un-drawn cards go back to the owners ensures that the same folks are likely going to have the best chance every year - though I think it would be far worse if you were to forfeit your submitted cards without winning anything. Oh, you can also trade in a Hold Card for a free t-shirt :grin:

[Tony Santana]

I know of one place that will sell all but one bottle of every limited release they get - everything from ETL Commemorative to Pappy. So most of their stuff gets doled out over the course of the year - I think just on the shelf, although perhaps preference is given to certain favored customers. Then on Black Friday they sell all the accumulated bottles - first come, first serve, although everyone only gets one bottle.

So, sort of a hybrid system. I can nitpick it, but it's an interesting concept.

[Jiggity]

Do other states do this?

Not here in California. I agree that it's ridiculous that the state gets involved down to that level of detail, but I presume Iowa has only state run liquor stores and that is why allocation is being controled at that level. Allocation here is at the distributors discretion.

Distributors here in California dangle the Pappy and BTAC carrot in front of the retailers, i.e. the higher your "sales out" of BT distillery products, the higher your "sales in" of the top shelf limited releases will be. Some shops try to follow suit and reserve those releases for their best customers as well, but we as consumers don't know where we are on that list. I've spent close to $5k on booze this year at one local shop and I don't think I'm on their short list for any of their limited releases.

[The Black Tot]

I'll drive more than an hour out of my way to shop at a store that holds special stuff for me.

And I'll only buy from a store who doesn't know or care who I am if it's a rarity that I have no chance of getting otherwise.

I only learned this this year. I hadn't paid enough attention to how things worked prior to that. Now I'm teaching my friends.

tbt

Edited June 3, 2014 by The Black Tot

[squire]

I take care of them who take care of me. A conscientious owner doesn't need any sort of system to know who his good customers are.

[Ravensfire]

I take care of them who take care of me. A conscientious owner doesn't need any sort of system to know who his good customers are.

Pretty much this. While I don't get everything from one place, I get most of my alcohol from one store. Most of them know me by face and I've found ways to help them out on occasion (one guy hadn't had Hopslam before and was new enough to the store that he didn't get any. I had a case reserved and had gotten some from another place so talked the manager into giving one of my six packs to him. It's paid off since then.). I really just like going in and the people there say hi and actually recognize you. With many of the limited releases being allocated based on sales, it really sucks because there are a couple of small places that I really like but I know they won't get much of any small allocation.

[MauiSon]

My view is that lotteries are as fair as possible. Holding bottles for special customers is a corrupt practice.

[HighInTheMtns]

My view is that lotteries are as fair as possible. Holding bottles for special customers is a corrupt practice.

Gotta disagree with this. A business is more than within its rights to treat its best customers differently than the rest of its customers.

[squire]

The customer who buys average stuff all year long deserves a treat.

[flahute]

Gotta disagree with this. A business is more than within its rights to treat its best customers differently than the rest of its customers.

Gotta agree with Jim. A business holding bottles for it's most loyal customers does not meet the definition of "corrupt".

[MauiSon]

Gotta disagree with this. A business is more than within its rights to treat its best customers differently than the rest of its customers.

I don't disagree with your statement and yet stand by my own. I wrote a long reply, but feel this comment is sufficient.

Edited June 4, 2014 by MauiSon

[MyOldKyDram]

Taking care of what you perceive to be your best customers is the only solution that makes sense to me. Sure as shit what I would do if I had a store.

[EagleRiver]

My view is that lotteries are as fair as possible. Holding bottles for special customers is a corrupt practice.