Beam Maple destroys Beam

[JPBoston]

I'd draw a distinction between flavored whiskies and cocktails. Cocktails use the whiskey as a base and build layers of flavor upon it. Flavored whiskey seems--at least to me--always to do it's darndest to make the maple or honey or cinnamon or whatever the most prominent flavor note. I just think there's a big difference between mixing a cocktail and pouring a flavored shot. Sort of like there's a big difference between having a coffee with some cinnamon sprinkled on it vs. buying cinnamon flavored coffee. It's probably to do with the synthetic nature of a lot of the flavoring, but the drink just strikes me as attempting to mask the whiskey, whereas cocktails strike me as attempts to build upon the flavor of the whiskey. Don't know if that makes sense. But that's my take.

Seconded.

With cocktails, you know the quality (or lack there-of) of the base whiskey. The pre-flavored juice seems like the perfect opportunity to mask and push their less than desirable product.

Maybe I just don't hold enough faith in humanity...

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[Pudsky]

A while back I tried some Crown Royal Maple. That was all it took for me to stay far away from the flavored whiskies...all of them but Fireball. For some reason I like doing shot of that. Maybe because its so weak a shot doesn't do much to wreck my beer when its a beer night.

[393foureyedfox]

months ago, a friend poured me a glass of KC maple. i couldnt drink it, it was SO over the top sweet and fake-maple tasting. but, as joe said above, flavored whiskies sell like crazy these days, and more and more are constantly coming out. I cant bash the whole concept though, as WT Honey and EW honey were my gateways into this, though I dont even like those anymore.

[squire]

I use mixers because I'm a reverse snob snob.

[smknjoe]

Is that double snob like a double negative, Squire?

[squire]

Nope, it's doubly descriptive, real snobs understand.

[Eggman]

Howdy,

I feel almost as strongly about Devil's Cut. Yuck!

[GaryT]

Heck, if Red Stag can't kill the Beam brand, nothing will...

Hey - I still have an open bottle of Red Stag! I think as long as you go in eyes wide open and understand it is NOT bourbon, it makes a big difference. I think of it as high proof black cherry liquor (and for that purpose, it does well!)

[Hawg73]

The Willett gift shop has a t-shirt that says:

coffee black

water still

bourbon neat

Ha ha ha...now that is a t-shirt I would wear proudly!

[Grain Belt]

I hate all these flavored whiskies with the company logos of the bourbons and Canadian whiskeys that I enjoy. There is not a good one in my opinion. That being said I need to step back and realize that these liquor companies are in it to make money and will try to introduce whatever they can to do this. I just turned 40 and realize that I don't have a lot in common with the under 30 crowd anymore. At lunch at work the other day I listened to a 15 minute dissertation on the virtues of Crown Royal Maple by a 25 year old coworker. I just smiled and said I like a little bourbon once and a while when I was asked.

[steeltownbbq]

Whiskey rectifiers have been adding flavors and coloring to sell inferior product forever. This quote from the "The Art of Blending and Compounding Liquors and Wines", by Joseph Flieshman, 1885:

"All newly-distilled liquors and spirits have a rough and pungent taste, which must be remedied before they can be used a beverages. This is done by fruit-juices or flavors, which are mainly alcoholic extracts of fruits and other substances, and are employed in certain proportions to counteract the raw taste of the new spirits."

You can see more recipes here:

http://www.pre-pro.com/recipe.htm

It's disappointing to see the big players putting their name on this stuff, but in a world of branded products and product line extensions and uninformed consumers, it it understandable why they do it.

[Dwt]

So what do you all think of the Angels Envy and the Port and Rum Barrel aging? The rum aged Rye tastes like rum liqueur. Over the top. The port aged Bourbon is still recognizable as bourbon, though.

[PaulO]

I've never tried it for two reasons. The price is too high to take a chance buying a whole bottle. Also, I believe really good whiskey doesn't need odd flavors added to it. I think a person could have more fun with some different cocktail bitters and sweet vermouth.

[TunnelTiger]

Never tried it either. In the past I have tried some "honey" whiskys but they just don't appeal to me. If I want something sweeter I'll mix it myself.

[ethangsmith]

Once again, like on pretty much every thread on here, I will be the lone dissenting voice. I've been trying these flavored whiskies over the past few years and I find all of them pretty bad, except for two- The Beam maple and the Knob Creek smoked maple. I will either drink them straight or mix a tiny splash into my neat whiskies if I find them to taste bad.

I'm of the opinion that it gets people to start drinking American whiskey. One of the guys at work started on the Wild Turkey honey and now he's going out and buying bottles of straight bourbons and ryes and really enjoying them. So while it may funnel some whiskey away from straight bourbons and ryes, it's not the best stuff, but it gives people a segue into American whiskey.

[smokinjoe]

So what do you all think of the Angels Envy and the Port and Rum Barrel aging? The rum aged Rye tastes like rum liqueur. Over the top. The port aged Bourbon is still recognizable as bourbon, though.

I think both of the Angels Envy products are well done, and I have purchased multiple bottles of both. Personally, I like the idea of alternate barrel finishing/double barreling of bourbons and ryes. I will admit that I was concerned with the big gingerbread nose of the AE Rye, the first time I opened my first bottle. I worried that it would carry over to the palate and overwhelm the whiskey, but was delighted when it did not. It turned out to be a delicious but light touch of candied sweetness.

In general, I believe that barrel finishing of bourbon or rye when done well can result in a very tasty whiskey, and in general, opens up a whole new segment to be enjoyed. I look forward to more additions coming to market. BUT!!!! This does NOT include "flavored" whiskies like Red Stag, the honey, cinnamon, maple, etc products, however. Those are a whole 'nuther animal, and I am hesitant to even mentioned their names when talking finished whiskies.

[Dwt]

I think both of the Angels Envy products are well done, and I have purchased multiple bottles of both. Personally, I like the idea of alternate barrel finishing/double barreling of bourbons and ryes. I will admit that I was concerned with the big gingerbread nose of the AE Rye, the first time I opened my first bottle. I worried that it would carry over to the palate and overwhelm the whiskey, but was delighted when it did not. It turned out to be a delicious but light touch of candied sweetness.

In general, I believe that barrel finishing of bourbon or rye when done well can result in a very tasty whiskey, and in general, opens up a whole new segment to be enjoyed. I look forward to more additions coming to market. BUT!!!! This does NOT include "flavored" whiskies like Red Stag, the honey, cinnamon, maple, etc products, however. Those are a whole 'nuther animal, and I am hesitant to even mentioned their names when talking finished whiskies.

The rye IS overpowered by the rum flavoring of the finishing barrel IMO. So much so that I use it as an aperitif.

Also, if one is picky about definitions, as soon as the distillate is removed from new charred oak barrels and transferred to used ones, it turns into a different product, does it not? "Port barrel aged American Whiskey". I doubt I'm alone in picking up on this.

[bad_scientist]

Eh, things get weird with loopholes, if at one point it was matured in new charred white oak barrels, that might be enough to qualify it, even if it's transferred later.

[smokinjoe]

The rye IS overpowered by the rum flavoring of the finishing barrel IMO.

I did hear ya the first time!

[tanstaafl2]

The rye IS overpowered by the rum flavoring of the finishing barrel IMO. So much so that I use it as an aperitif.

Also, if one is picky about definitions, as soon as the distillate is removed from new charred oak barrels and transferred to used ones, it turns into a different product, does it not? "Port barrel aged American Whiskey". I doubt I'm alone in picking up on this.

A matter of personal preference no doubt. Of course Angel's Envy isn't just "Port barrel aged American Whiskey", it is "Straight Kentucky Bourbon Whiskey finished in Port Wine Barrels".

I enjoy the variety provided by interesting barrel finishes as an addition to bourbon or rye and not instead of them. I am very capable of drinking and enjoying both. It is an area where Scotch has Bourbon and Rye at a significant disadvantage to me. There is much greater variety in Scotch and to a lesser degree single malts in other countries. If you are more the kind who wants their whiskey to meet a certain profile night after night it won't be for you.

Kinda like the way I like my women! I like to spice it up with something different on a regular basis.

I don't get to mind you but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like to...

:cool:

[Dwt]

A matter of personal preference no doubt. Of course Angel's Envy isn't just "Port barrel aged American Whiskey", it is "Straight Kentucky Bourbon Whiskey finished in Port Wine Barrels

My point is that the definitions of both bourbon and rye specify aging in "new charred "oak barrels. The port and the rum barrels are neither new nor charred.

Angels Envy bourbon and rye fit the definitions before being moved to the finishing barrels. So does that make the "bourbon" or "rye" into something else?

Just sayin'.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Dwt

[tanstaafl2]

My point is that the definitions of both bourbon and rye specify aging in "new charred "oak barrels. The port and the rum barrels are neither new nor charred.

Angels Envy bourbon and rye fit the definitions before being moved to the finishing barrels. So does that make the "bourbon" or "rye" into something else?

Just sayin'.

Nope, it doesn't. It is still a bourbon. As Chuck Cowdery and probably others have noted on here on more than one occasion you can't un-ring the bell. One it meets the requirements to be a bourbon (or rye) it remains a bourbon. It just has to be noted as having been finished in what ever it was finished in. Which is why it is correctly labeled as a "Straight Kentucky Bourbon Whiskey finished in Port Wine Barrels".

[Thig]

If I take a gallon of white paint and mix in a quart of black paint have I un-rung the bell. I sure don't have white paint anymore. I am sure Chuck and others are correct but it seems the same principle applies. You don't really have what you started with.

[tanstaafl2]

If I take a gallon of white paint and mix in a quart of black paint have I un-rung the bell. I sure don't have white paint anymore. I am sure Chuck and others are correct but it seems the same principle applies. You don't really have what you started with.

[Dwt]

Sounds good, but to my palette, tastes funny, at least the rye does. I'm sipping the bourbon as I type this, and it is tasty stuff