High rye mid-shelf suggestions?

[TunnelTiger]

I Also like the OFSig, in fact I am enjoying some right now in my Sunday Bloody Mary.

[BootsOnTheGround]

What's "high rye?"

I'd definitely say Breckenridge. It's nearly 40% rye and it shows.

Or High West's APR which is a 6 yr LDI and 10 yr FR blend of higher rye bourbon mashes.

[squire]

Traditionally high rye is 18% or more but that's not the whole story. A rye forward flavor profile can be created by making adjustments with time and temperature in the cooking process, at what stage added to the mash and other stuff.

Conversely using the same process a mashbill with 30% rye might have less apparent rye flavor in the finished whisky than one containing 15%.

[Quintilian]

Just my opinion, but the OF Sig is much tastier than the regular OF 86 proof.

I've heard the same thing.

[JDSmith619]

This is the best part. OGD114 and HMBiB are 2 of favorites. Good luck

The fun is in the trying. Try a few and let us know what you think!

[horn1602]

And if at first you don't succeed then try, try again.

Or maybe rye, rye again?

[squire]

That'll work . . . . . . . .

[dohidied]

This thread has reminded me of the fact that while I have numerous dusty bottles of Old Forester BiB and 86, I have never tried the modern Sig and 86. I need to rectify that soon.

[Creggor]

I agree.. I really liked the bottle of Breckenridge I had earlier this year.. I was suprised how much I like that bottle.. Creggor

[El Vino]

Eagle Rare is a solid choice in that price range.

[whiskeyobsessive]

Eagle Rare is a solid choice in that price range.

[El Vino]

Thanks for the correction. For some reason, I had it in my head that ER was the rye mash bill #2.

[whiskeyobsessive]

Thanks for the correction. For some reason, I had it in my head that ER was the rye mash bill #2.

It's interesting how the flavor profiles of some of the BT stuff can surprise you. I'd not have said ETL was higher rye than ER without knowing.

[Jackinbox]

In addition to what the others I've said, I've really taken a liking to Russell's Reserve 10-year. It sells around here for $28-35.

[tanstaafl2]

With the possible exception of some microdistillers where we don't always have a good idea of the mashbill aren't there really only three "high rye" bourbon mashbills being made out there in any volume?

MGP's 36% rye mashbill - Some of the Smooth Ambler bottlings, Redemption "High Rye" Bourbon and other NDP's using that mashbill. Problem is some of the NDP's may be mixing the 2 primary MGP bourbon mashbills for all I know (the other is 21% rye) so while that is still relatively high it is hard to know the exact rye content.

Four Roses 35% rye "B" recipe - Might also include Bulleit although that could be a blend of B and E recipes for all anyone knows. Might as well get the real thing and get the Four Roses single barrel OBSV!

Beam's OGD/Basil Hayden - around 27% rye mashbill according to the whiskey tree and "about 30%" from Chuck's blog

Some note the BT #2 mashbill as "high rye" but my recollection from Chuck's blog here and here is that while it is a higher rye than the rye content of the mashbill #1 it is because mashbill #1 is a pretty low rye content (8% or so) more so than mashbill #2 is a particularly high rye mashbill (15% or so and more like the typical bourbon mashbill).

Are there others?

Edited August 4, 2014 by tanstaafl2

[whiskeyobsessive]

With the possible exception of some microdistillers where we don't always have a good idea of the mashbill aren't there really only three "high rye" bourbon mashbills being made out there in any volume?

MGP's 36% rye mashbill - Some of the Smooth Ambler bottlings, Redemption "High Rye" Bourbon and other NDP's using that mashbill. Problem is some of the NDP's may be mixing the 2 primary MGP bourbon mashbills for all I know (the other is 21% rye) so while that is still relatively high it is hard to know the exact rye content.

Four Roses 35% rye "B" recipe - Might also include Bulleit although that could be a blend of B and E recipes for all anyone knows. Might as well get the real thing and get the Four Roses single barrel OBSV!

Beam's OGD/Basil Hayden - around 27% rye mashbill according to the whiskey tree and "about 30%" from Chuck's blog

Some note the BT #2 mashbill as "high rye" but my recollection from Chuck's blog here and here is that while it is a higher rye than the rye content of the mashbill #1 it is because mashbill #1 is a pretty low rye content (8% or so) more so than mashbill #2 is a particularly high rye mashbill (15% or so and more like the typical bourbon mashbill).

Are there others?

I tend to agree, but where do you draw the line? I'd call the MGP and 4R 20% mashbill sort of high as well. Perhaps anything significantly above the traditional 15% or so? Or maybe there is a definition out there that I've not heard.

[Jackinbox]

I've always heard that Wild Turkey used more rye, but after doing a little research it looks like it's only 13%. I guess I should retract my comments about RR10. :cool:

[tanstaafl2]

I tend to agree, but where do you draw the line? I'd call the MGP and 4R 20% mashbill sort of high as well. Perhaps anything significantly above the traditional 15% or so? Or maybe there is a definition out there that I've not heard.

Chuck chose to define it thusly as of this blog post from November 2011.

I would refer to anything with more than 30% rye as 'high' and anything less than 12% as 'low,' while anything in between is 'standard' or 'typical.'

That is a fairly wide middle ground and as best as I can tell there is no real industry definition for levels of rye in a mashbill.

[whiskeyobsessive]

I guess it does make sense to have a "standard" range. Though I'd argue we would have to determine mean rye %, then call anything above a standard deviation a high rye...clearly, I need a drink.

[squire]

Still we should be mindful that mash bills are just a part of what makes up the flavor profile of the finished whisky. Cooking procedures, yeast strain and proofs off the still are equally important and all those together are far over shadowed by the effects of barrel aging.

[whiskeyobsessive]

Still we should be mindful that mash bills are just a part of what makes up the flavor profile of the finished whisky. Cooking procedures, yeast strain and proofs off the still are equally important and all those together are far over shadowed by the effects of barrel aging.

Absolutely! Only need to try MGPI versus 4R with the same mashbill to taste the differences, or appreciate how similar 4R OESK and OBSK can taste . A while ago on reddditt, I asked Harlan Wheatley what % of a bourbons signature came from the mashbill; he put it as follows, and I have to agree:

A2: These are the key markers in production. Barrel selection being probably the most influential on the final taste. You can take the same day’s production and age in a barrel side by side in the warehouse and get different results. This is why we put so much emphasis on the evaluation and tasting of our whiskies. From our experimentation we know that the mashbill is one of the more important influences on the flavor. However as above they are all very important. I have broken it down before basically like this: Mashbill – 12 %, Fermentation/Yeast – 12 %, Distillation – 20 % Aging Technique – 50%, Bottling/Processing – 5%. All being their relative % responsible for flavor.

[Quintilian]

Absolutely! Only need to try MGPI versus 4R with the same mashbill to taste the differences, or appreciate how similar 4R OESK and OBSK can taste . A while ago on reddditt, I asked Harlan Wheatley what % of a bourbons signature came from the mashbill; he put it as follows, and I have to agree:

A2: These are the key markers in production. Barrel selection being probably the most influential on the final taste. You can take the same day’s production and age in a barrel side by side in the warehouse and get different results. This is why we put so much emphasis on the evaluation and tasting of our whiskies. From our experimentation we know that the mashbill is one of the more important influences on the flavor. However as above they are all very important. I have broken it down before basically like this: Mashbill – 12 %, Fermentation/Yeast – 12 %, Distillation – 20 % Aging Technique – 50%, Bottling/Processing – 5%. All being their relative % responsible for flavor.

Thanks for this great info. It makes me wonder how much aging technique plays into the BT mash bills. For example, what are the significant differences between ER and BT or EC12 and EWSB other than the age? I wonder how much char level on the barrels creates a difference for those and others. Obviously, I need to do some tours of the HH, BT, and FR distilleries.

[flahute]

Absolutely! Only need to try MGPI versus 4R with the same mashbill to taste the differences, or appreciate how similar 4R OESK and OBSK can taste . A while ago on reddditt, I asked Harlan Wheatley what % of a bourbons signature came from the mashbill; he put it as follows, and I have to agree:

A2: These are the key markers in production. Barrel selection being probably the most influential on the final taste. You can take the same day’s production and age in a barrel side by side in the warehouse and get different results. This is why we put so much emphasis on the evaluation and tasting of our whiskies. From our experimentation we know that the mashbill is one of the more important influences on the flavor. However as above they are all very important. I have broken it down before basically like this: Mashbill – 12 %, Fermentation/Yeast – 12 %, Distillation – 20 % Aging Technique – 50%, Bottling/Processing – 5%. All being their relative % responsible for flavor.

That is fantastic info. Thanks for holding onto that and sharing it.

[squire]

Yes, Harlen certainly has his finger on the pulse. Interestingly, other Master Distillers have estimated the barrel influence may be as much as 70% of the final flavor profile.

[mbroo5880i]

Yeah, rule of thumb probably varies because in certain situations one or the other factor may have a higher influence than normal.