Abraham Bowman jumps the shark???

[tanstaafl2]

From SKU's latest blog post it appears Abraham Bowman has put out a label for 7yo (if the dates are to be believed) "Vanilla Bean Bourbon". It is early yet and it is not a 70pf liqueur like most flavored concoctions are but this one is a little disconcerting.

Maybe it will be better than it sounds at first glance. One can only hope.

[VAGentleman]

Wow a flavored bourbon. I'm a huge Bowman fan but this has me nervous. I'm going to head down there next week and try to get a taste. Scared that they'll still charge $70

[sku]

Is it bourbon? The label statement is "Vanilla Bean Flavored Whiskey" but then there is a line for "description" which says "vanilla bean bourbon." My suspicion is that it is bourbon, but there may have been some haggling with TTB over the terms.

[portugieser]

I'd be disappointed if this was bourbon that was infused with vanilla extract after maturation, but I doubt that's the case. Rather, I suspect that chopped vanilla beans were added to the spirit during maturation (similar to what is done when making vanilla bitters). The interesting question is when the beans were added, i.e., for the length of the maturation or towards the end of maturation (as might be done when finishing a bourbon in port barrels).

[VAGentleman]

If that's the case, and I hope it is, I'd guess for several months at the end. The new Bowman brands have only been around 4 years or so.

[Harry in WashDC]

I recall the process they used on their ginger beer finish (which, if one ignores price, turned out OK imo) and wonder if this is similar - redistill the BT base then put in barrels w/beans and age. I don't care for most commercially infused vodkas, but I have made my own, including vanilla bean, so am cautiously optimistic - if I can do it, they can, too. But like VAG, I may pass on this one depending on price.

In the meantime, I opened a bunkered JJ Bowman SB 100 proof yesterday (before I read this thread or SKU's blog). I may pour a bit and add a drop or two of Nielson-Massey vanilla extract. I'm depending on VAG to report on his distillery run so I don't have to (smile).

[tanstaafl2]

I recall the process they used on their ginger beer finish (which, if one ignores price, turned out OK imo) and wonder if this is similar - redistill the BT base then put in barrels w/beans and age. I don't care for most commercially infused vodkas, but I have made my own, including vanilla bean, so am cautiously optimistic - if I can do it, they can, too. But like VAG, I may pass on this one depending on price.

In the meantime, I opened a bunkered JJ Bowman SB 100 proof yesterday (before I read this thread or SKU's blog). I may pour a bit and add a drop or two of Nielson-Massey vanilla extract. I'm depending on VAG to report on his distillery run so I don't have to (smile).

Could be. But if it was some kind of barrel finish I would have thought they would say so with something like Vanilla Bean Barrel Finished Bourbon similar to the Gingerbread Beer version. Will just have to wait and see.

[smokinjoe]

...but there may have been some haggling with TTB over the terms.

But, "...haggling with TTB" would suggest that TTB actually knows the correct terms to haggle over...

[Harry in WashDC]

Could be. But if it was some kind of barrel finish I would have thought they would say so with something like Vanilla Bean Barrel Finished Bourbon similar to the Gingerbread Beer version. Will just have to wait and see.

Noted. Thanks. The problem with the COLAs is they are sometimes placeholders - details to be adjusted later. As I think about it more, you are right, though; they would have said something like "barrel finished".

[compliance]

There's no such thing as a vanilla bean barrel, so I don't think they could write that. It would have to be matured with vanilla beans or something to that effect.

[mbroo5880i]

Three Floyds makes a bourbon barrel aged with vanilla beans beer. I assume they make it much like Harry describes above.

If you think about it, vanilla is prominent taste attribute in some bourbon so aging with vanilla beans to impart additional vanilla flavor might appeal to those who like that attribute and, possibly, enthusiasts as well.

I agree with Steve. It looks like there is some issue with what they will be allowed to call it. They are calling it a whiskey but it appears to be bourbon. There must be some perception that the vanilla beans are an added flavor as opposed to simple finishing to add flavor.

[MyOldKyDram]

This sounds ready made to go into the baking cabinet and that's about it.

[Harry in WashDC]

Well, I did put a 1/2 oz. of a 100 proof bourbon I don't like at all (been trying to like it for about 4 months) and added two drops of Nielsen-Massey "Madagascar Bourbon" pure vanilla extract (the really good kind used by professional cooks). It did make it drinkable, sort of. OTOH, I could have just sipped from the vanilla extract bottle as it is 70 proof.

[Josh]

I don't think there's any rule that says you have to call it bourbon if it's bourbon. Just calling it whiskey covers everything.

[alemmo]

I would think the extract idea might be too strong. I'm actually going to buy some vanilla beans, Amazon seems to have the best price. And put one or two pods in a bottle of bourbon for 2-4 days to infuse and see how it turns out.

[HP12]

This thread is turning into a good reminder of why laws were enacted in order to protect the integrity of consistent and proper bourbon production.

[VAGentleman]

I went down to the distillery today and talked to Brian Prewitt the Master Distiller. He said he knew this would cause some fuss once it hit the COLA. He assured me they are not turning into Red Stagg or anything like that. He wanted to call it a bourbon finished with Vanilla beans. They went back and forth with the TTB four times before being told they had to label it as flavored. What they have done is take several varieties of Madagascar vanilla beans, chopped and ground them up and added them to aging bourbon barrels for continued aging. He said they are not looking for an overpowering vanilla note, just something subtle that adds to the flavor. This version of AB is not ready for release yet. Once they deem it ready they will blend all of the barrels that have the different beans in it and release it. He stressed that the Abraham line is for experiments and this is one of them.

On a separate note a new AB was just released. A 9 year old bourbon that was finished for 6 months is Apple Cider barrels. I'll start a new post on that shortly

[petrel800]

Hard to call it bourbon if you're adding flavoring. The law is pretty clear . . . the barrel finishing deal is already walking a fine line, but if you're adding flavoring, whether it be cherry syrup or vanilla beans, it seems to me it's no longer bourbon.

[VAGentleman]

Interesting that they allowed Jim Beam to label their Spanish Brandy as Finished with but not this

[tanstaafl2]

Interesting that they allowed Jim Beam to label their Spanish Brandy as Finished with but not this

Maybe the difference between adding another spirit as compared to a "non-alcoholic" flavoring? Don't know, just speculating.

Or maybe there has been enough attention on the subject lately that the TTB is being a bit tougher...

:cool:

[Harry in WashDC]

Thanks, VAGen. As long as ASB keeps making their Bowman Bros SmB 90 proof and their John J Bowman SB 100 proof, I don't mind their experimenting. So far, I've liked what they've done - some more than others (port finish for example).

[BAO]

I'm intrigued by this. The majority of bourbon barrel aged beer with vanilla is dynamite.